Sunday, September 11, 2011

A Libertarian Vent: Do You Remember 9/11? I Do.

I found the following essay as I was reading various articles about 9/11. It was written last year on 9/11 by a young man who writes as J-Victus on his blog called "A Libertarian Vent." His understanding of why 9/11 really happened impressed me and I wanted to share it with you...

DO YOU REMEMBER 9/11? I DO.by J-Victus

I was a child when a gorgeous Tuesday morning turned into a day of confusion, fear, and anguish. In an English class, the intercom from the front office called me down for an unexpected "doctor's appointment." No school? Great. I walked with a spring in my step down to the office and as I walked out with my mother, her face turned grimmer than when I first saw her and she said, "I won't keep you in the dark. The Twin Towers have been destroyed. We're under attack." In the mid-90s, my family visited the Windows on the World restaurant a few times.

I immediately imagined the people who were up there, and my worldview expanded in a day from Pokemon and yo-yo's to international relations. As I listened to George Bush acknowledge the day's tragedy, I was enraptured with the response he promised to deliver to these killers. I was suddenly an ardent kill-em-all neocon that would make Terry Jones blush. From here I derived a fun motto: "I am a recovered neocon. I was in puberty, what's your excuse?"

Until into 2004, I was aggressive, anti-Muslim, and unapologetically pro-Bush. But I am not an idiot. No WMDs were found. Call me crazy, but that was the reason we were given to invade in the first place. As I watched my elder Americans fall for the script rewrite that declared the objective of the war to be the liberation of the Iraqi people, an anti-government sentiment brewed in me and grew more intense with the week.

I regret only that it took until nearly the end of high school to solidify this universally anti-war position. I wish I could have warned more of my peers about the evils of empire because I did not and do not want to see anyone from my formative years die for our criminal overlords. But it is happening, and will likely get worse.

I find it deeply disturbing that my peers are choosing to enter the military in such a day and age. Two recent enlistments are college just-graduates who cannot find jobs in their area of study. Their case is not unique, but is actually a deliberate policy by the criminals in Washington. Known as military Keynesianism, it is the program of offering the military as an "employer of last resort" during economic downturns. The scum who pursue this despicable strategy then tout the lower unemployment rate.

It's a diverse bunch that are going to fight. Another is a former party girl who just recently left for Iraq. Another notable classmate is a young man whose father was killed in the Twin Towers. He is now a skilled marine sniper. His anger is perfectly understandable. I cannot imagine losing a father so young.

But our feelings have no bearing on facts, not even grief. Nine years on, I would tell this young man that the best way to honor his father's memory is to ask and understand why the attack that killed him happened. Warmongers framed the debate in the early years to make it seem that those who questioned aggressive policies were unpatriotic. While emotionally effective in a traumatized nation, it is typical neocon nonsense. Police always investigate the motive of a crime. That does not mean they sympathize with the killing! It's just good detective work.

Osama bin Laden himself told us why he ordered the 9/11 strikes: "Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple: Because you attacked us and continue to attack us...Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands." When he was ignored, he implored Americans to listen to their own intelligence community, which concluded that bin Laden was not lying to himself or to Americans when he explained his motives. It is impossible to leave an honest examination of the facts and history with a pro-war position because a look at reality shows unambiguously that the blame for this strife falls squarely on the United States government.

Yes, America started it. While the Bush gang decries "blaming America for everything," it doesn't change the fact that many terrible events are the fault of American policies. It shouldn't boggle the mind too much. We have a worldwide Empire, and imperial actions will have consequences.

Again and in caps: YES, AMERICA STARTED THIS WAR. Is it not obvious that before the 1950s, the Muslim world had either friendly or no relations with the US (except for the Barbary Pirates, who were a problem because they were pirates, not because they were Muslims)? What changed this? Our coup in Iran in 1953. It is a fact of history that the once-arrogant and warmongering British, who were watching their Empire disintegrate in the aftermath of WWII, came whining to the CIA about some kind of communist revolt in Iran when they asserted control over their oil. In response, Operation Ajax overthrew the popular government and installed the tyrannical and hated Shah (just another one of "our bastards"), ensuring continued western control of the oil supply. Of course, the Iranians are a powerful people, not to be underestimated, and they took their nation back not 30 years later.

The aftermath of Operation Ajax was ever-widening US intervention in Muslim countries (Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Lebanon, on and on) and unbending support for Israel, which made the Zionist regime all the more aggressive. Deepening parallel to the expanding meddling was Muslim anger seething against the interference. Is this unjustified? How would we react to foreign interference in the United States? What if our nation was occupied (By some army vast enough)? Would we not expect Americans to form militias and build improvised explosive devices? The most patriotic Americans would put the foreign soldiers through daily hell. The longer the occupation lasted, the more angry Americans would get, and with it their capacity for violence would grow. Is anyone deluded enough to think the American people have some unique moral buffer that would restrain the viciousness of any response? In the final months of WWII, AT LEAST 300,000 Japanese civilians (<---read boiled.="" br="" canals="" incinerated.="" that="" the="" were="">
Indeed, the March 9-10 Firebombing of Tokyo was deadlier than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki. Don't make me laugh and say that Americans would show an ounce of mercy to occupiers in their own backyard. Americans are humans and humans are violent, especially angry humans.

Of course foreign-occupied Americans would become enraged, and their actions would mirror that rage. They would kidnap occupying soldiers. They would torture and murder them on video and release the tapes to terrify all others. Don't deny it, my friend. Insurgency fights not the physical army face-to-face, but attempts a deeper assault on the will of its members. Insurgents who fight occupations seek to terrorize the troops who walk on their land. Therefore, it should not be shocking that Iraqi and Afghan insurgents are terrorizing US troops who walk on their land.

Especially since, lest you forget, America started it. Whether we want it or not, blood is on our hands because our tax dollars paid for every bomb that has hit a wedding and every bullet that has ended some bystander's life. And while the blood of those 3000 Americans is on the Al-Qaida thugs who murdered them, also to blame are the officeholders and lobbyists who pursued the unnecessary, stupid, and evil policies that made the attack possible in the first place.

So many Americans see 9/11 as some kind of declaration of war that came out of nowhere. This would be news to millions of Middle Easterners whose memory includes 50 years of American intervention. 9/11 was retaliation. It may be hard to accept--indeed it seems that some Americans (Especially those named Hannity, Bolton, or Limbaugh) are simply incapable by nature of accepting this truth--but it is historical fact that five decades of American intervention preceded the destruction of the Twin Towers. While the neocons speak of spreading democracy, all they really spread is bullshit (Sorry! Not really...) to obscure historical truths that cannot be refuted, but can most certainly be ignored to pursue more war. They have been ignored since the 1950s, they were ignored on September 11th, 2001, and they continue to be ignored as the stupidest war in American history --and likely our last-- is in the making.

So yes, remember 9/11, remember the victims. But the most important thing to remember is why. As I sat in confusion and fear watching over and over the images of devastation that ravaged our country, I asked,"Why?" like millions of my fellow Americans. The answer should be obvious. The CIA explained it and Osama answered us as well. Why were we attacked? Because we attack.

And our countrymen only died in vain if we ensure others will share their fate.

41 comments:

  1. Many thanks for the kind words and reprint. God bless.

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  2. Pretty fierce. I dislike conspiracy theories and find the idea that the US Government is employing a "military Keynesian" strategy to mess up its economy to people join the army, pretty ridiculous. But of course there is, like with many articles on this anniversary, a valid point. I wrote about this yesterday myself, quoting Robert Fisk's article about this being a crime for which nobody seems willing to discuss the motive. Although I think it's not just the Americans who have to think again about their responsibilities to their ethics, to each other and to the World.

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  3. Susie,

    I have read your blog for years and this is my first comment. Emotions run high in reference to 9/11. I recommend the following CNN report for consideration by your readers

    http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/12/a-decade-after-911-enduring-lessons-for-the-arab-world/?hpt=hp_t2

    Thanks

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  4. This reading just sicked me on so many level...in his little mind doesn't occour that someone wants to join the army for the sense of duty that will protect the author of this sick essay and his freedom of expression.

    But of course for him all all his hate american friends it's always America's fault...but of course he's in a good company with the like of Krugman (his latest post on NY times is sick on so many levels) or Chomsky.

    But of course for the likes of him we should sing Kumbaya with the people who despite the western world and the way we live....Chamberlain thought he could reason with Hitler and we all know the consequence.

    He lives in his little liberal world and he can write this trash only thanks to the men and women (whom he despite) who sacrifice themselves for his freedom of expressionbut I'm wondering if he says anything against the forced marriage of young girl, of the gays killed in Iran, of the people killed or imprisoned only because they decided they didn't want to be a muslim anymore, the genocide in Sudan.......

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  5. @ Countrygirl - The author of this article is not saying what you are assuming. He's not saying that people haven't enlisted in the military because of a sense of duty. He's not trashing our men and women in the military at all. He is very well read and changed his world view as a direct result of being well read. Many Americans have no clue at all as to the motivation behind the attacks of 9/11 - his article offers explanations for their motives.

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  6. "Explainations for their motives"

    Why does the world think muslums are due some special consideration? The blame for their violent actions belong to others?

    Does the world believe muslims are not able to debate and contribute to the conversation regarding their destiny? I suppose so, everyone making excusses for their "bad" behavior.

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  7. @ Janice - Explanations and excuses are not the same thing. There is so much more background leading up to the events of 9/11 that most people are not aware of or understand. That is the essence of this essay.

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  8. "I find it deeply disturbing that my peers are choosing to serve imperialism. Two recent enlistments are college just-graduates who cannot find jobs in their area of study."

    So this isn't trashing the US army/navy/air force? IMHO yes, he's saying that you enlist because you can't find a job so enlisting is your last resort....he's comparign the US to an evil empire...

    and the crap about conspiracy theories...i reckon that he believe that it was a mossad/cia op, or that maybe there were no jews in the towers because the mossad phoned them to not come to work on 9/11/01

    the only thing i'm sorry is that i've spent 5 minutes reading this pile of hate crap.

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  9. @ CountryGirl - Again you are reading things into what he wrote that he is not saying. Imperialism, as defined by The Dictionary of Human Geography, is "the creation and/or maintenance of an unequal economic, cultural, and territorial relationship, usually between states and often in the form of an empire, based on domination and subordination." That there are no suitable jobs for college graduates and that, as a last resort, they enlist is what he is lamenting about. These are people who would have likely never considered a career in the service if the economy of the US weren't in such shambles.

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  10. Thank your for sharing. You are correct in saying "There is so much more background leading up to the events of 9/11 that most people are not aware of or understand."

    9/11 was such an unspeakable tragedy that caused immeasurable pain, but we can't close ourselves off from the reality of everything behind the attacks: the good, the bad, and the ugly. Let's not blind ourselves to this.

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  11. I do not hate America. I hate Empire.

    "Why does the world think muslums are due some special consideration? The blame for their violent actions belong to others?"
    ...
    In the piece, I said "And while the blood of those 3000 Americans is on the Al-Qaida thugs who murdered them, also to blame are the officeholders and lobbyists who pursued the unnecessary, stupid, and evil policies that made the attack possible in the first place."


    So this isn't trashing the US army/navy/air force?
    ...
    I highly support the US Armed Forces. In fact, I support them so much I want them home with their families yesterday.
    No, trashing the US Armed Forces is using them to protect the profits of oil firms. Bring them home... NOW

    IMHO yes, he's saying that you enlist because you can't find a job so enlisting is your last resort....he's comparign the US to an evil empire...
    ...
    It is an evil Empire. All Empires is evil.

    and the crap about conspiracy theories...i reckon that he believe that it was a mossad/cia op, or that maybe there were no jews in the towers because the mossad phoned them to not come to work on 9/11/01
    ...
    I said:
    "And while the blood of those 3000 Americans is on the Al-Qaida thugs who murdered them, also to blame are the officeholders and lobbyists who pursued the unnecessary, stupid, and evil policies that made the attack possible in the first place."

    I am sorry that you do not like facts. Life must be very difficult for you. Once again, I link to the CIA itself explaining the background of Islamic terror and addressing their role in its fomentation: https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol48no2/article10.html

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  12. I mean, seriously guys: 2002 called. They want their rhetoric back!

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  13. I dislike conspiracy theories
    ...
    The term conspiracy theory is bastardized and politicized. I address that here: http://www.alibertarianvent.com/2010/04/was-911-conspiracy.html

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  14. He lives in his little liberal world
    ...
    HAHAHAHAHAHA. Look at the NAME OF MY BLOG.
    I reject the false conservative-liberal paradigm which is nothing more than distraction to guarantee the continued profits of the Military Industrial Complex.


    and he can write this trash only thanks to the men and women (whom he despite) who sacrifice themselves for his freedom
    ...
    I do not despise US troops. Those who despise them are those that want to keep them dying for nothing.
    The US military has not been used to "defend freedom" since WWII. They have been usurped by the Corporatocracy.

    Wake up.

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  15. @j-victus

    But for you the bottom line is that it's always american fault, it's policies and of course the big bad repubblicans...never it's fault of KSA and its funding of moques where hate is taught and that if you kill an infidel you will go strait paradise where 72 virgin will wait for you.

    That day AMERICA and the rest of the world were attacked, sure the foreign policy wasn't perfect, but ANY country's foreign policy isn't perfect, they look out for they own.

    I still think that you don't like US military since for you one join for a last chance of finding job.


    We don't live in a kumbaya world and sometimes thought choices must me made....just think just before WW2 and how Chamberlain caved with the Munich Agreement...what have you done after 9/11? the only way to respond to those barbarians was one.

    And i replied myselves who put in any muslim terrorists that western way of life is evil? why there were an increase of terrorist acts after the second half of the 70es? why it's scary to think that right now the secular muslims that were part of the spring revolution are silenced by integralist funded and more important indocrinated rull of drums.....KSA and other gulf countries?

    We stay on the opposite of political spectrum and i think it will pretty impossible to find a common ground (unless you like country music).

    Btw i've read your piece regarding conspiracy theories and guess what i disagree 100% with you....those poor iranians with their "civilian" nuclear power..

    You told me to wake up but i can say the same about you

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  16. Governments, all governments world-wide have made, and continue to make idiotic decisions in the name of their particular ideology. Yes, we propped up the Shah of Iran, propped up other despotic nations throughout the world, but, keep in mind that we were the ones that also funded the Mujahadin (sp?) against the Soviets. That was Charlie Wilson's and the CIA's doing that drove the Soviet's out of Afghanistan. (Yes, I've read the book, not just seen the movie.) I'm sure Bin Laden loved us back then. We provided the means by which his Muslim brethren defeated, which by any standard, was an overwhelming superior force.

    So the question begs, Why? To simply blame it at the feet of American policy is too simplistic. Is it a factor? More than likely, but it is still nothing more than an excuse to hurt innocents, which is the same evil that was perpetuated against them.

    I am a retired NYC paramedic. I happened to be back home in NYC visiting my mother in the Bronx on 9/11. (I retired in 1999, and moved away from NYC) I remember that Tuesday morning all too well, being woken up by my wife at the time telling me, "You had better see this." It's the day we were to return to our home in upstate NY. I lost a former colleague in the collapse of Tower 2. I had many friends, both paramedic and police friends, including a childhood buddy, that were hurt, some very badly. My own brother, now a FDNY paramedic Lt., was called back into duty that day, but thankfully was kept at his station in the South Bronx. We finally got a hold of my cousin, who works in lower Manhattan, as she was running for her life across the Brooklyn Bridge.

    I do not blame all Muslims, or Islam for this horror. Every religion, and I mean EVERY religion has those who will twist it to their own means. It was an Orthodox Jew who killed Rabin. Read the Old Testament lately? It's a playbook on how to treat unbelievers. It was the actions of individual men, zealots without an original thought in their head that drove those planes into buildings on that horrible day. Those are the ones I hold responsible at the end of the day.

    Did we occupy Muslim countries? Depends on your definition of occupation. Whatever you may feel about the Saudi government, they are a legitimate government that gave us permission to set up airbases there. Hardly an occupation. Iraq? Never should have went in there in the first place. Afghanistan? right to go in when we did, should have had a better plan, and probably should have left a long time ago. right now, I would call Afghanistan the only place that we truly "occupy." we have bases in Turkey as well, a nation that carries pride in its secular government, working along those who choose to be devout Muslims. Do we occupy them as well, simply by our presence?

    I think not.

    "My fellow Americans, we still regard the instant murder of 200,000 Japanese civilians an ocean away to have been somehow militarily necessary and morally acceptable, though American generals THEN and soon after decried the evil the attacks brought into the world."

    Don't go there.The historical facts speak for themselves, not to mention the fact that in the almost 70 years since Hiroshima and Nagasaki, restraint has won the day. Dropping the bomb back then was the lesser of two evils, at the end of the day. The casualty rate for an invasion of Japan, both military and civilian, would have been far higher. Would there have been the same moral outcry if that had gone forward? I tend to doubt it.

    Your arguments have some valid points. However, and please let me be clear on this, it strikes me less as asking why, and more of a definition of why.

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  17. But for you the bottom line is that it's always american fault,
    ..
    No, only when it is the fault of the US government. We just happen to the superpower now. Soon it will be China or India's turn to play "empire". And it will be brutal, just like it always has been.


    it's policies and of course the big bad repubblicans...
    ...
    I do not differentiate between the two main parties. They are two wings of the same bird of prey.


    never it's fault of KSA and its funding of moques where hate is taught and that if you kill an infidel you will go strait paradise where 72 virgin will wait for you.
    ...
    Such a teaching does not exist in the Koran. I do not deny the existence of Muslim extremists. Nor do I deny the existence of Christian or Jewish extremists.


    That day AMERICA and the rest of the world were attacked,
    ...
    Please look into the CIA teaching of blowback.


    sure the foreign policy wasn't perfect, but ANY country's foreign policy isn't perfect, they look out for they own.
    ...
    That's the point. They are not looking out for their own on the other side of the world. Der...


    I still think that you don't like US military since for you one join for a last chance of finding job.
    ...
    It is for many young people, especially today.

    We don't live in a kumbaya world and sometimes thought choices must me made....just think just before WW2 and how Chamberlain caved with the Munich Agreement...what have you done after 9/11? the only way to respond to those barbarians was one.
    ...
    I agree, this should have been our answer, not spending a decade in a nation known as the Graveyard of Empires: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.+3076:_blank

    And i replied myselves who put in any muslim terrorists that western way of life is evil? why there were an increase of terrorist acts after the second half of the 70es? why it's scary to think that right now the secular muslims that were part of the spring revolution are silenced by integralist funded and more important indocrinated rull of drums.....KSA and other gulf countries?
    ...
    I have read that block of text four times and I can't decipher it, rephrase please.

    Btw i've read your piece regarding conspiracy theories and guess what i disagree 100% with you....
    ...
    That's nice. Please refute me.


    those poor iranians with their "civilian" nuclear power..
    ...
    The Iranian nuclear program is sanctioned by the NPT. They allow inspections. And the IAEA has detected NO diversion of nuclear material to military from civilian use. In fact, the only way the Iranians could even do such a thing is to kick out the IAEA and announce to the world that it is developing atomic weapons.
    But why is Israel allowed to have nukes and Iran not?

    You told me to wake up but i can say the same about you
    ...
    negative... you are the one in the coma.

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  18. @J...If you want to live in your little world fine by me...

    You don't need an atomic bomb, to make a so called dirty one and since it is well known that the thugs in Iran alway gave support to terrorism it scares me that they could give terrorist materials to make a dirty bomb.

    I will gice you the cliff notes of the passage you didn't understand (english isn't my mother language)...in the mosques around the world it is theached that the western way of life is evil, that infidels are pigs, that is ok to ill infidels/whoever leaves islam/gays....and it is happening right now in any muslim country. This wave of integralism started at the end of the 70es.

    So if it were for you the answer for 9/11 would be do nothing, maybe trying to understand the "feeling" of those "poor" terrorist...to cave in like Chamberlain in 1938? or Herr Hitler it's ok you can have this country...you would translate with oh yes mr. bin laden we are sorry all the evils of the world comes from us dirty americans!

    So i will remain in my world and you can remain in yours...

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  19. So if it were for you the answer for 9/11 would be do nothing
    ...
    Are you intellectually dishonest or just dense? I said
    "I agree, this should have been our answer, not spending a decade in a nation known as the Graveyard of Empires: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.+3076:_blank"

    Seriously, wake up.

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  20. @j sorry it was late and i didn't follow the link...and maybe i didn't grasp any nuaces of of the bill but since back then Bin Laden had a strong support of the taliban regime, i don't see how a "many of privately armed and equipped persons and entities" could capture...so send mercenaries who for sure doesn't have the means and the support that the US army can have.

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  21. so send mercenaries who for sure doesn't have the means and the support that the US army can have.
    ...
    It took 9 years, 7 months, 22 days, 1140 American soldiers, and $500 billion to find bin Laden in a sh*thole. Don't make me laugh. AHHAHAHAHAH.

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  22. But since back then Bin Laden had a strong support of the taliban regime
    ...
    Untrue. The Taliban was sick of bin Laden. In fact, the Foreign Minister of the Taliban tried to warn the US of what was coming in August 2001: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2242594.stm

    They absolutely did not support bin Laden's strike on America. That shouldn't be shocking or anything: look what happened to them because of what he did and his organization did...

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  23. @j i wasted time with you....you have your sick idea that it was due US foreign policies that 9/11 happened you blame the US, for all the devils of the world i think diametrical opposite.

    YES it took nearly 10 years to take bin laden but i'm pretty sure he would be still free as a bird if there were only mercenary.

    One last thing for sure i'm happy that the taliban regime is gone and they stone age mentality, just think of what they did to the stone buddhas or what was the women rights during their regime...granted right now the women's rights isn't ideal but for sure it is far more better...afghans still have a stone age mentality but at least right now women has some tiny tiny right that they didn't have during the taliban

    i will gladly stay in my world, granted the USA are far from being perfect but they are better compared to many countries.

    and for the the matter is closed i don't want to spend time fighting qith you since you won't change idea and for sure i won't chamge mine

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  24. I believe their actions, not their cause or goals, remove any global, moral standing. Thus removing all legitimacy.

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  25. @Janice
    I believe their actions, not their cause or goals, remove any global, moral standing. Thus removing all legitimacy.
    ...
    I completely agree. I am not defending their action. I am explaining it and consistently applying it to our own government as well.

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  26. @j i wasted time with you....you have your sick idea that it was due US foreign policies that 9/11 happened you blame the US, for all the devils of the world i think diametrical opposite.
    ...
    The CIA and the 9/11 Commission agree with me. Or rather, I agree with them. Bin Laden also said himself that the CIA is correct about him.


    YES it took nearly 10 years to take bin laden but i'm pretty sure he would be still free as a bird if there were only mercenary.
    ...
    Have you heard of the profit motive? Mercenaries don't get paid unless they succeed. DER.

    One last thing for sure i'm happy that the taliban regime is gone and they stone age mentality, just think of what they did to the stone buddhas or what was the women rights during their regime...granted right now the women's rights isn't ideal but for sure it is far more better...afghans still have a stone age mentality but at least right now women has some tiny tiny right that they didn't have during the taliban
    ...
    Look up argumentum ad misericodiam, since you are using it.
    The Taliban is not gone. Are you joking? http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/212150/20110912/war-on-terror-made-al-qaeda-and-taliban-stronger-study-says.htm

    i will gladly stay in my world, granted the USA are far from being perfect but they are better compared to many countries.
    ...
    If 100,000 people have died in Iraq alone, and Islamist terrorists have killed 17,000 all over the world in the same time frame, how are we "better"? I surely am better, but it is not hard to not bomb people. You just have to not bomb them.

    and for the the matter is closed i don't want to spend time fighting qith you since you won't change idea and for sure i won't chamge mine
    ...
    I have provided sources, commentary, and other information both throughout this thread and throughout my original piece above.
    You are the most intellectually dishonest people I have come across in months.

    I repeat: 2002 called, they want their rhetoric back.
    Idiot.

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  27. Susie claims that J-Victus is educated. However, he is only partially educated or willfully ignorant. The article is filled with partial information at best. How would JV explain all the jihadi violence in all of the Muslim world against brother Muslims? The U. S. is not “occupying” every Muslim land. It is Muslims themselves who have slaughtered countless tens of thousands and continue to do so on a daily basis.

    I would suggest that JV read about Islamic history, which is very violent and very aggressive with its forced spread of Islam from the times of Muhammad 1400 years ago. Islam was at the gates of Vienna twice and ruled Spanish Andalusia for over 800 years. Islam attacked the world long before there ever was a United States.

    Then he should read Islamic scripture, with its endless mandates of world conquest. The fantasies that most Muslims have of an Islamic caliphate are alive and well, today! The Saudis are working toward that end by sending imams around the world, building mosques and urging Muslims to learn English in order to spread Islam. Yet, proselytizing for other religions is illegal in Saudi.

    Islam is the only religion that has a whole chapter in its holy book on war booty and enslavement:

    Surah 8. Al-Anfal (Spoils Of War, Booty)
    O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. Qur’an 8.15.
    The Unbelievers spend their wealth to hinder (man) from the path of Allah, and so will they continue to spend; but in the end they will have (only) regrets and sighs; at length they will be overcome: and the Unbelievers will be gathered together to Hell;-Qur’an 8.36
    And know that out of all the booty that ye may acquire (in war), a fifth share is assigned to Allah,- and to the Messenger, and to near relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer,… We sent down to Our servant on the Day of Testing,- the Day of the meeting of the two forces...
    Qur’an 8.41. http://www.harunyahya.com/Quran_translation/Quran_translation8.php

    Contrary to J V’s claim, there is plenty of reference to Paradise virgins in the Qur’an where believing men will enjoy all the pleasures that are denied them in this life:
    Sura 44.54 ..and We shall join them to fair women with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes. 
Sura 55.56 In them will be (Maidens), chaste, restraining their glances, whom no man or Jinn before them has touched;-
Sura 78.33 And voluptuous women of equal age;
Sura 52.17-20 They shall recline on jewelled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine (that will neither pain their heads nor take away their reason); with fruits of their own choice and flesh of fowls that they relish. And theirs shall be the dark-eyed houris, chaste as hidden pearls: a guerdon for their deeds.
    The ahadith have even more colourful, specific descriptions of the carnal pleasures of Paradise.
    The idea that Americans are occupiers and imperialists is really pushing it. Colonialists rob colonies, they do not bankrupt themselves trying to give the colonies democratic freedoms. America is going bankrupt with this folly, just as ObL planned. Islam and democracy are wholly incompatible.

    The insult that Americans are “corrupting” Muslims lands is outrageous if not laughable. Americans have helped and protected Muslims on many occasions from Bosnia to Kuwait. Every time, Muslims have turned on the U. S. Muslims are only too happy to use everything Western, even for terror. Why send their children to be educated in the West if they hate our way of life? Why use our medical services and technology? Who is forcing them to use infidel products and services?

    I was against both wars and wish that the U. S. would pull out of ALL Muslim nations. Let them fix their own, self-made problems! Note how Syrians are asking for international “protection” from the infidel nations that they hate. If we are foolish enough to help, they will blame us for everything that goes wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Marianne thanks for you input, english isn't my 1st language so sometimes i have some difficulties to make my point...

    J i din't insult you but for you i'm an idiot only because i don't share your world view? wow you are really a gentleman!

    ReplyDelete
  29. Susie claims that J-Victus is educated. However, he is only partially educated or willfully ignorant. The article is filled with partial information at best. How would JV explain all the jihadi violence in all of the Muslim world against brother Muslims?

    Sectarian jealousies and rivalries as are found in many religions. A shame.
    ===
    ===

    The U. S. is not “occupying” every Muslim land.

    Where did I make the claim that we are occupying “every Muslim land”? We are on Muslim land period. That’s the issue.
    ====
    ====

    It is Muslims themselves who have slaughtered countless tens of thousands and continue to do so on a daily basis. I would suggest that JV read about Islamic history, which is very violent and very aggressive with its forced spread of Islam from the times of Muhammad 1400 years ago. Islam was at the gates of Vienna twice and ruled Spanish Andalusia for over 800 years. Islam attacked the world long before there ever was a United States.
    ….
    Islam is a religion. Religions cannot attack things. I do not deny the existence of extremists. They are criminals and defame Islam.
    ===
    ===
    Then he should read Islamic scripture, with its endless mandates of world conquest.

    I do not deny that Muslims consider their religion to be supreme. I am a Christian. I believe Christianity to be supreme. Rabbinic Jews believe their Talmudic commentary to be supreme. The interesting part, though, is that the Koran is full of respect for Christ and advises reconciliation: Qur'an 29:45-49:

    ReplyDelete
  30. “Recite what is sent of the Book by inspiration to thee and establish Regular Prayer: for Prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds; and remembrance of Allah is the greatest (thing in life) without doubt. And Allah knows the (deeds) that ye do.
    And dispute ye not with the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] except with means better (than mere disputation) unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say "We believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."


    Now compare this to the Talmud and its discussion of Jesus, in which He is called a sorcerer, a bastard, and a sexual deviant. This website is run by the Lubavitch, one of the largest Orthodox Jewish groups in the world: noahide.com/yeshu.htm
    Also this fantastic scholarship: press.princeton.edu/titles/8383.html
    ===
    ===

    The fantasies that most Muslims have of an Islamic caliphate are alive and well, today! The Saudis are working toward that end by sending imams around the world, building mosques and urging Muslims to learn English in order to spread Islam. Yet, proselytizing for other religions is illegal in Saudi.

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  31. I am quite familiar with Islamic Scripture. You mention various passages describing a heavenly reward of young women. This is not what I denied. Countrygirl said Muslims “are taught and that if you kill an infidel you will go strait paradise where 72 virgin will wait for you.”
    I replied: “Such a teaching does not exist in the Koran. I do not deny the existence of Muslim extremists. Nor do I deny the existence of Christian or Jewish extremists.”
    To elaborate, what I specifically denied is that the Koran teaches that Muslims who kill non-Muslims will be rewarded in Heaven with 72 virgins. Even the Hadith verse which is the source of this idea says only: “► Tirmidhi Hadith 2562 :
    “ The Prophet Muhammad (saw) was heard saying: “The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana’a [Yemen].
    This Hadith is a Daif, a weak Hadith because it has no chain of narrations although it is listed in an authoritative collection, this particular Hadith has technical weaknesses in its chain of transmitters and is therefore not considered acceptable. Even if the Hadith was true, there is nothing about it that says that if someone commits suicide they would get 72 virgins in paradise.
    Further: straightdope.com/columns/read/2329/does-the-koran-really-promise-islamic-martyrs-72-virgins
    No verse in the Koran sanctions Muslims to initiate violence against innocent people who have done them no harm. I cannot wait to see which verses you answer with.
    ====
    ====
    Islam is the only religion that has a whole chapter in its holy book on war booty and enslavement:

    Nice try: biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+31&version=NIV
    ===
    ===

    The idea that Americans are occupiers and imperialists is really pushing it. Colonialists rob colonies, they do not bankrupt themselves trying to give the colonies democratic freedoms. America is going bankrupt with this folly, just as ObL planned. Islam and democracy are wholly incompatible.

    ReplyDelete

  32. Democracy … sucks… tenthamendmentcenter.com/2010/06/29/the-founding-fathers-rejected-democracy/ and we are not there to bring them freedom. We are there because war is profitable to the industrial complexes. The bill I have repeatedly mentioned above that would employ letters of marque and reprisal would have saved THOUSANDS of the lives and HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars. navytimes.com/news/2011/09/ap-us-money-ending-up-in-taliban-hands-091511/

    The insult that Americans are “corrupting” Muslims lands is outrageous if not laughable. Americans have helped and protected Muslims on many occasions from Bosnia to Kuwait.

    No no, they have helped and protected the Iranian Shah and various Arab dictators. Look up Operation Ajax and Kermit Roosevelt of the CIA.
    Oh… Bosnia, sure that makes up for everything.
    ===
    ===

    I was against both wars and wish that the U. S. would pull out of ALL Muslim nations. Let them fix their own, self-made problems! Note how Syrians are asking for international “protection” from the infidel nations that they hate. If we are foolish enough to help, they will blame us for everything that goes wrong.

    Amazing how we reach the same end.

    ReplyDelete
  33. VJ, you have glossed over all the aggressive attacks by Muslims on humanity since the days of Muhammad and even those against the West in the 20th century. Yes, America and the West do what is in their best interest—like everyone. Why should it be otherwise? An old Arab saying goes: “The enemy of mine enemy is my friend.”

    Wait until you see what comes next in the Islamic world after the fall of the Western protected. Better the devil you know. Many an Iranian has wished for a return to the days of the Shah. For over 30 years the Arabs looked the other way when Saddam was in power. They did not mind the decades long occupation of Lebanon by Syria nor the occupation of Gaza by Egypt. No Arab took notice when the Taliban was terrorizing the Afghans. Then there is the little thing earlier in the 20th century of collaboration with the Nazis. Surely you have read all the antiSemitism and Jew hatred in the Qur’an?

    Democracy … sucks…

    True. However, no one has come up with something better.

    I could recommend “democratic” Turkey (where “honor” killings abound and persecution of nonMuslims and anyone who “insults Turkishness” will get you killed) to Saudi Arabia (where any overt practice of anything but Islam is against the law, where women are chattel) to lawless Sudan and Somalia for a wide spectrum of Islamofascism. When you discover the drawbacks, then you always have the option, via your American passport, to leave.

    “Democracy is a very bad form of government, but all the others are so much worse.” Churchill

    America is a republic where even the poor are spoiled and live much better than the really poor of any other nation, with modern plumbing, cars, washing machines, all sorts of electronic gadgets and $100 tennis shoes.

    Churchill also said this about Islam:

    "The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist where the followers of the Prophet rule or live. ... The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to a sole man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. ... Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it." Churchill concluded: “No stronger retrograde force exists in the world."

    You should go see first hand what Islam does to the human psyche, how it enslaves and paralyzes turning whole nations into indolent-nihilists that depend on others for virtually everything incessantly saying: “Inshallah” while sitting on their hands and shutting down their brains.

    Would the genius of a Steve Jobs of Syrian parentage (adopted by Americans) have flourished in a place like Syria under Islam?

    I can offer up countless Qur’anic passages (clog up Susie’s blog) mandating violent jihad; for Muslims to offer Islam or dhimitude (second class status, like in Saudi) to the infidel. If those are rejected fighting and killing the infidels are the duty of every Muslim. Because the Qur’an states that Islam must rule! Surely you must know that if you are at all familiar with the teachings of the ideology.

    Muslim terrorists practice what the Qur’an mandates. Jews and Christians are not enslaving and terrorizing according to the Old Testament.

    Ponder what happens when “everyone” in the world accepts Islam? Will humanity then live like most Muslims, in the dark ages?

    After the Arab “Spring” things should get interesting, since they all hate each other and do not trust even their own (familial or tribal) brothers. Hang on to your hat, there is going to be a lot of bloodshed for who knows how long—and guaranteed— no democracy or freedom for anyone, especially not women or nonMuslims.

    Naturally, they will expect the West to give them aid and rebuild what they destroy. Marianne

    ReplyDelete
  34. Oh, and JV, Islam is the only religion that is at the same time a political ideology which the Qur’an says must RULE all of humanity. Believers cannot put manmade laws above their faith. Therefore, many are insisting on Sharia law, even in the secular West. England already has succumbed. Others are agin’ it. In the U. S. over 20 states are contemplating laws against Sharia. In Canada, it was Muslim women who protested against Sharia because it is discriminatory against women and nonMuslims.

    Slowly, slowly the Westerners are waking up to the danger of political Islam.

    Recently there have been laws made against the full veil, burqa, niqab in France, Belgium and just this week in Holland. Switzerland has enacted laws against minarets. It is only the beginning. In Germany Muslims have repeatedly violated zoning laws by building very tall minarets.

    No matter how Muslims try to spin it, Islam is NOT compatible with democracy!

    As to war being “profitable”—Is that why the U. S. is going bankrupt, because of all that war booty and profits? I remember Bush claiming that the Iraqi oil would pay for the war. LOL In the meantime, the American taxpayer is sending planeloads of cash to Islamic lands where the money is pocketed by corrupt politicians and their cronies so that they can purchase hated infidel goods.

    While we agree that these wars are folly and have brought nothing but debt and grief, I cannot concede that Islamic aggression is the result of the U. S. “corrupting” Arab lands by their presence. That is precisely what ObL said. Of course, later he changed it to the Palestinian issue and then it was capitalism, when no one would listen to the rhetoric because al Qaeda and friends were murdering Muslims instead of infidels. Daily statistics show that there is Islamic aggression in ALL Muslim lands. As I said before, the U. S. is not “occupying” every Islamic country.

    The fact is that Muslim aggression started with the prophet, when he was driven from Mecca to Medina, when the Arabs would not accept his prophethood. That is when the messenger decided it was time for war and to force Islam on the unbelievers or kill them. Read about the first battle of Islam at Badr and how the Islamic hordes butchered the caravan, just as they butchered the contractors in Iraq.

    Nothing has changed in 1400 years. Islam spread via the sword like wildfire and within 200 years of the death of the prophet Islam ruled half of the then known world. It is always fascinating that with all the cries of “imperialism” from Muslims, they do not seem to have a problem with Islamic imperialism and to this day dream of worldwide Islamic rule.

    You may want to take note that the kingdom of humanity has a sword on its lovely, green flag, along with the shahada "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah"

    Fortunately, many people in the world take exception to those.

    Marianne

    ReplyDelete
  35. stop slandering people's religious book because youre doing a disservice to yourself and your countrymen. It's amazing that they even ask us why we hate them? what do you expect with this kind of PR anyway.

    Counting days for china to be a superpower. It is at that time when people will say, if you speak english, it does not mean youre intelligent.

    Not long now with all that debts looming and unemployments on the rise.

    ReplyDelete
  36. VJ, you have glossed over all the aggressive attacks by Muslims on humanity since the days of Muhammad and even those against the West in the 20th century. Yes, America and the West do what is in their best interest—like everyone. Why should it be otherwise? An old Arab saying goes: “The enemy of mine enemy is my friend.”

    I glossed over nothing. I said “I do not deny the existence of Muslim extremists.”
    ===

    Wait until you see what comes next in the Islamic world after the fall of the Western protected. Better the devil you know. Many an Iranian has wished for a return to the days of the Shah. For over 30 years the Arabs looked the other way when Saddam was in power.

    Iranians are not Arabs. And to suggest that people want the Shah back is asinine. LOL. time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,912364,00.html
    ===

    They did not mind the decades long occupation of Lebanon by Syria nor the occupation of Gaza by Egypt. No Arab took notice when the Taliban was terrorizing the Afghans.

    Afghans are not Arabs. Learn facts.
    ===

    Then there is the little thing earlier in the 20th century of collaboration with the Nazis.

    ReplyDelete
  37. LOL: 51 DOCUMENTS: ZIONIST COLLABORATION WITH THE NAZIS jewsagainstzionism.com/bookstore/productDetails.cfm?merchID=5
    ==

    Surely you have read all the antiSemitism and Jew hatred in the Qur’an?

    There is none. Anti-Semitism is a hatred based on blood. It criticizes their ethnocentrism (you need to learn the difference between Arab and Muslim), but not their ethnicity itself
    ===

    Democracy … sucks…
    True. However, no one has come up with something better.

    Agorism… reject the political system entirely: agorism.info
    ===
    I could recommend “democratic” Turkey (where “honor” killings abound and persecution of nonMuslims and anyone who “insults Turkishness” will get you killed) to Saudi Arabia (where any overt practice of anything but Islam is against the law, where women are chattel) to lawless Sudan and Somalia for a wide spectrum of Islamofascism. When you discover the drawbacks, then you always have the option, via your American passport, to leave.

    Islamofascism is a stupid word. Fascism is an invention of Europeans.
    ===

    Somalia’s problems are based on foreign intervention, not their political system. In fact, their political system doesn’t even exist, nor did it for millennia . Look up Xeer blog.mises.org/7128/the-rule-of-law-without-the-state/
    ===

    “Democracy is a very bad form of government, but all the others are so much worse.” Churchill
    America is a republic where even the poor are spoiled and live much better than the really poor of any other nation, with modern plumbing, cars, washing machines, all sorts of electronic gadgets and $100 tennis shoes.
    ….
    This is not a Republic lol, it is a Corporatocracy.
    There are tent cities across the country: businessinsider.com/lakewood-new-jersey-homeless-tent-city-2011-9
    ===
    Churchill also said this about Islam:
    "The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist where the followers of the Prophet rule or live. ... The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to a sole man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. ... Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it." Churchill concluded: “No stronger retrograde force exists in the world."

    LOL! Take note of the banner at the very top robtshepherd.tripod.com/islamic.html
    ===

    You should go see first hand what Islam does to the human psyche, how it enslaves and paralyzes turning whole nations into indolent-nihilists that depend on others for virtually everything incessantly saying: “Inshallah” while sitting on their hands and shutting down their brains.

    I know many Muslims. None of them are like that. Stop reading the Terry Jones Koran.
    ===

    I can offer up countless Qur’anic passages (clog up Susie’s blog) mandating violent jihad; for Muslims to offer Islam or dhimitude (second class status, like in Saudi) to the infidel. If those are rejected fighting and killing the infidels are the duty of every Muslim. Because the Qur’an states that Islam must rule! Surely you must know that if you are at all familiar with the teachings of the ideology.

    No you can’t. There s nothing in the Koran that authorizes Muslims to initiate force against those who have done them no harm. Examples:
    Surah 9:5 is Sean Hannity's favorite verse to quote. It is particularly disturbing, but the context makes clear the situation. On top of that, he doesn't even quote the whole verse: "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush..."
    Whew! Pretty brutal, no? The first thing, however, that should alert us to deeper meaning is the phrase "sacred months."

    ReplyDelete
  38. But the context, now.
    The word idolators is more accurately translated as "unbelievers [in Allah]." Thus, it does not refer to Jews or Christians, who are NOT considered unbelievers. Those "idolators" are Arab polytheists. Muhammad and the Muslims
    made a treaty with them (and the Jews and Christians). Some polytheists broke the treaty and attacked Muslims. Muhammad ordered his followers to wait FOUR MONTHS to take restitution, during which time they must simply hope that the polytheists make good themselves. ONLY after than time, can they use force, and only against those who wronged them, and if they offered to make good, the fighting is over. Here is the context:
    [9.1] (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Apostle towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.
    [9.2] So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.
    [9.3] And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.
    [9.4] Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
    [9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
    [9.6] And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.
    [9.7] How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Apostle; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).


    Another is [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter,"
    Again, of course, context clarifies.
    [2.190] And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits.
    [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
    [2.192] But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
    [2.193] And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Muslim terrorists practice what the Qur’an mandates. Jews and Christians are not enslaving and terrorizing according to the Old Testament.

    Read the Talmud.

    Ponder what happens when “everyone” in the world accepts Islam? Will humanity then live like most Muslims, in the dark ages?
    ….
    So ignorant you are. It was Europe that was in the Dark Ages while Islamic lands thrived.
    ===

    Oh, and JV, Islam is the only religion that is at the same time a political ideology which the Qur’an says must RULE all of humanity. Believers cannot put manmade laws above their faith. Therefore, many are insisting on Sharia law, even in the secular West. England already has succumbed. Others are agin’ it. In the U. S. over 20 states are contemplating laws against Sharia. In Canada, it was Muslim women who protested against Sharia because it is discriminatory against women and nonMuslims.
    Slowly, slowly the Westerners are waking up to the danger of political Islam.

    Zionism is more dangerous. Look up the Samson Option.
    ===

    No matter how Muslims try to spin it, Islam is NOT compatible with democracy!

    I repeat, democracy sucks.
    ===

    As to war being “profitable”—Is that why the U. S. is going bankrupt, because of all that war booty and profits? I remember Bush claiming that the Iraqi oil would pay for the war. LOL In the meantime, the American taxpayer is sending planeloads of cash to Islamic lands where the money is pocketed by corrupt politicians and their cronies so that they can purchase hated infidel goods.

    AHAHAHAHH. The US treasury is broke, but the heads of the military industrial complex (such as Lockheed-martin, Boeing, etc) are swimming in cash. Every bullet is profit to them. Get a grip
    ===

    That is precisely what ObL said.
    ===
    DUH. The CIA and 9/11 Commission agree with him. That’s the point you sillyhead.

    While we agree that these wars are folly and have brought nothing but debt and grief, I cannot concede that Islamic aggression is the result of the U. S. “corrupting” Arab lands by their presence. That is precisely what ObL said. Of course, later he changed it to the Palestinian issue and then it was capitalism,

    Uh he never changed the motive… he elaborate on it.
    ===

    As I said before, the U. S. is not “occupying” every Islamic country.
    ===
    Nor did I say they were.
    The fact is that Muslim aggression started with the prophet, when he was driven from Mecca to Medina, when the Arabs would not accept his prophethood. That is when the messenger decided it was time for war and to force Islam on the unbelievers or kill them. Read about the first battle of Islam at Badr and how the Islamic hordes butchered the caravan, just as they butchered the contractors in Iraq.
    ...
    Ignorance. See Koran discussion above.
    ===

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  40. Do I remember where I was on 9/11? Yes. Clear as a bell.

    I will preface this by saying I'm not American, I'm Australian. I don't hate America. But even as a 14 year old I was a woman of knowledge who knew of the United States consistent and insistent involvement in proxy warfare, in siding with Israel where the USSR sided with the non-Israel nations in the Middle East, I knew about Iran, Egypt, Iraq, I knew about the 6-Day-War. I knew about the conflicts that the US never got involved in because it wasn't in their "interests". The only reason I would not openly say this now is my political involvements.

    I remember waking up the morning of September 12 to see on the front cover of the newspaper the destruction of the Twin Towers.

    My first thought- based on the foreign policy objectives and the way the US engaged with the world since WW2, they had it coming.

    Someone group that were steam-rolled in the past 50 years were going to respond. The history of imperialism tells us that. The modern day of imperialism TELLS US THAT. A non-US example? The Northern Ireland problems still aren't solved, there are still threats of violence.

    And the response? Disproportionate. Before 9/11, the rhetoric in this country was non-existent, but after, but my youth and lack of experience meant I just followed along with the political groups that pushed Australia to join in with 2 wars and a lame duck US President who I still think never won either election legitimately. Now, I work tirelessly within the party to push for moderate voices, to ensure it isn't sucked into the abyss of right-wing lunacy that promoted invading Iraq.

    I prefer the world before 9/11. We all got along much better. I liked not having stupid embarrassing airport searches, more expensive freight, and paranoia that has seeped into governments around the world.
    However, I hope the US has learned to keep its hands out of pies.

    ReplyDelete

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