tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post5182295201557023125..comments2024-03-23T02:00:27.106+03:00Comments on SUSIE of ARABIA: Comparing Arab and Western YouthSusie of Arabiahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13315336613944665651noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-91028434228298840652010-01-23T16:39:43.443+03:002010-01-23T16:39:43.443+03:00To Lilly - The most logical choices for your kids ...To Lilly - The most logical choices for your kids would be the international schools - there are American, British, etc., based on whatever country's curriculum you come from. Tuition is pricey, so if your are coming here because of your husband's work, try to negotiate some compensation into his contract for the kids' schooling.Susie of Arabiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13315336613944665651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-47624259698663876582010-01-23T16:15:15.447+03:002010-01-23T16:15:15.447+03:00Hey susie
I would like to know are there any good...Hey susie <br />I would like to know are there any good english schools in jeddah? Where does your son study? I am very interested as I might move to jeddah and I need to know if there is any good schools for my kids<br /><br />ThanksLillynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-80391915026318747092010-01-19T02:02:57.395+03:002010-01-19T02:02:57.395+03:00Hi Susie!! I'm so far behind on my blogging, ...Hi Susie!! I'm so far behind on my blogging, but I loved hearing from you the other day and your sweet comments....I would find it facinating to 'go on a walk' with you and your son and see what you see!!! Thank you for sharing my walk - you're welcome to come with me anytime! Miss you and love you!<br />xoxo<br />CarolCarol Duntonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17884281960990842987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-59173279292592693762010-01-17T15:48:43.194+03:002010-01-17T15:48:43.194+03:00I consider my son both Western and Arab, however h...I consider my son both Western and Arab, however he himself feels much more American than Arab. He came to KSA at 14yrs.Susie of Arabiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13315336613944665651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-72898422148823638982010-01-17T14:13:13.392+03:002010-01-17T14:13:13.392+03:00First time reading your post - only saw from your ...First time reading your post - only saw from your profile that you took your son. There were some very good points for the arab youths. Do you consider your son western or arab?Jakarta Rockshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01122426618548032862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-57883823265352880102010-01-17T14:13:12.219+03:002010-01-17T14:13:12.219+03:00First time reading your post - only saw from your ...First time reading your post - only saw from your profile that you took your son. There were some very good points for the arab youths. Do you consider your son western or arab?Jakarta Rockshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01122426618548032862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-9967792982194306252010-01-17T00:53:12.724+03:002010-01-17T00:53:12.724+03:00Thanks for all the interesting and thoughtful comm...Thanks for all the interesting and thoughtful comments. <br />I actually rolled my eyes and scoffed when I saw the unexpectedly high (58%) number of Arab youth responding that they believe in gender equality in the workplace. <br />I agree that the survey would have carried much more weight had the Western sample been equal to that of the Arab sampling, and I doubt that there would have been much difficulty in locating willing particpants from the West. <br /><br />I also agree with Jerry's point about the Western sample being skewed - since the survey sampled several different Arab countries, an equally mixed sampling from the Western participants would have made the survey more credible. <br /><br />And to David - Your points are well taken. My husband (also an educator) had told me the same things about how Arabs might answer according to what they think is the right answer instead of their true opinions or feelings. I think the survey would have been more accurate and revealing if each country's results had been presented separately instead of lumping them together into two groups.Susie of Arabiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13315336613944665651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-62285309053224696042010-01-16T23:13:01.888+03:002010-01-16T23:13:01.888+03:00As often is the case, your post is an interesting ...As often is the case, your post is an interesting one. Your efforts to build bridges are to be commended and I am fan for this reason. this survey, however, is not valid. The 300 to 1500 ratio has already been mentioned, but I've lived in the Gulf for going on seven years and a couple of other things come to mind as a result. <br /><br />First - the term "Arab"<br />My wife is Palestinian, raised in Qatar, who studied in Amman, with a Jordanian passport. She often says there is such a disparity in everything from dailect to daily life, and one cannot group Arabs together. The biggest division of course is the Bilad Al Sham Arabs (Lebanon, Jordan, Palestine, Syria and parts of Egypt) and the Gulf Arabs (UAE, Oman, Saudi, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrian). In some ways, its like two different worlds. The North African Arabs offer unique world views and opnions as well, and even more so when they are split East (Morocco, Algeria etc) and West (Somalia, Sudan etc)<br /><br />Second - habitual indoctrination and knee-jerk replication.<br />Due to these cultural stalwarts (and yes teh West has there own too) answers are often are based on what should be said, rather than what is real. (lack of tolerance for crticism in terms of religion of politics for example, has ripple effect the answer to many questions) I work in the feild in feild of education and when reading essays and reports on politics and religion, it is amazing just how many responses are neary excatly the same. <br /> <br />The Survey, in this sense, still reveals volumes, but not at first glance....David Anthony Hoholhttp://www.relativityonline.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-86232630025296946312010-01-15T19:05:39.807+03:002010-01-15T19:05:39.807+03:00It may be true that they drink in Bahrain- but the...It may be true that they drink in Bahrain- but they drink plenty in Saudi as well. Probably like their western counterparts. <br /><br />If the numbers are true-about those who believe in equal rights etc. I'm guessing the sample was tilted to those kids who have grown up exposure to the outside through travel and education. This younger, more priveledged, better educated crowd is far more progressive than the average youth.<br /><br />I've met many young men who seem to very much believe in equality here- but they are from that background.Sandynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-48205874721216699822010-01-15T19:05:35.127+03:002010-01-15T19:05:35.127+03:00It may be true that they drink in Bahrain- but the...It may be true that they drink in Bahrain- but they drink plenty in Saudi as well. Probably like their western counterparts. <br /><br />If the numbers are true-about those who believe in equal rights etc. I'm guessing the sample was tilted to those kids who have grown up exposure to the outside through travel and education. This younger, more priveledged, better educated crowd is far more progressive than the average youth.<br /><br />I've met many young men who seem to very much believe in equality here- but they are from that background.Sandynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-79617330254878638752010-01-14T23:59:25.455+03:002010-01-14T23:59:25.455+03:00@Sandy, and all Saudi youth go to Bahrein whenever...@Sandy, and all Saudi youth go to Bahrein whenever they get the chance to also see moves, and drink alcohol.<br /><br />I also have my doubt about either the study, or the truthfullness of the participants. Especially more than 50% of the middle eastern guys think women should have equal opportinities????<br />Don't make me laugh!<br /><br />Or maybe they meant ''Women should have equal opportunities as men, EXCEPT their: mothers sisters nieces and cousins and daughters and grandaughters''<br />That I would believe.Save the Women!http://aerinndis.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-63681955328090692762010-01-14T21:55:15.428+03:002010-01-14T21:55:15.428+03:00Saudi kids are cruising the malls to checking peop...Saudi kids are cruising the malls to checking people out ALL THE TIME. Outside Saudi- they go to rock concerts, movies, ice skating as well. They have movies in Bahrain- just drive accross the bridge! All kinds of concerts and movies in Dubai- it's right next door!Sandynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-53983952023616703992010-01-14T17:23:53.001+03:002010-01-14T17:23:53.001+03:00I love comparative surveys and despite the flaws m...I love comparative surveys and despite the flaws mentioned by some of your readers, I did find it interesting and perhaps worrisome that optimism about the future and feeling a closeness to religion seem so closely interrelated. Great post. It does worry me that today's Western youth don't seem as "optimistic" about the future though. We need more positive energy from the young.Gutsy Livinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02226653890127738115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-71944992977433191602010-01-14T15:40:50.754+03:002010-01-14T15:40:50.754+03:00This surprises me on several counts.
(1) B-M is c...This surprises me on several counts.<br /><br />(1) B-M is certainly a well-respected international agency and, in fact, I've worked with a few of their people in the past. So in view of their international presence, how is it they could only come up with 300 Westerners?<br /><br />(2) Item 7 where "just" 58% of ME males are in favor of gender equality seems way out of whack (on the upside) and causes me to have some doubts about the entire study. In a world where practically <i>no</i> women work, and when they <i>do</i> it's almost strictly in teaching and health care, I wonder whether the true ME male number isn't more like 10 or 15%. I realize Saudis are only one element in the ME mix, but it's not like UAE is a hotbed of gender equality either. <br /><br />(3)Re #8 "similar activities" of lifestyle? When's the last time you saw Saudi youth catching a movie at the cineplex, buying tour t-shirts at a rock concert, sneaking off to a rave or just cruising a mall to check out chicks and dudes? I suppose if you define the lifestyle categories broadly enough -- "going out," and "shopping," (and then add "texting" and "worrying about their hair") -- you could come up with "similar activities" between the West and Middle East. But that puts some serious damage to common sense.<br /><br />In short, I'm not impressed with the study. <br /><br />Thank you Susie for bringing this to our attention.Veeds of Arabiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16609079024522754584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-76922706439657441232010-01-14T03:30:15.807+03:002010-01-14T03:30:15.807+03:00Another thing that I would be interested in seeing...Another thing that I would be interested in seeing is for the poll to include Muslim teens living in the west. Perhaps just compare the Muslims teens from these ME countries with Muslim teens in the West?The Queenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04071652918414242294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-57567093635402300812010-01-13T20:54:06.794+03:002010-01-13T20:54:06.794+03:00I am sure the survey is ok by itself but some of t...I am sure the survey is ok by itself but some of the conclusions are so subjective as to be nonsensical without a lot of probling quesions. One third of the Westerners were German. So, one can imagine asking a question about what defines them as a person. Do you think an idealistic young German is going to want to be seen as nationalistic? I would certainly be curious if young Europeans think of a united Europe as some kind of ideal. If the survey asked that question, I don't see it.<br /><br />The success question is a real mess and the survey over interprets it. <br /><br />If this is what passes for opinion surveys today I will go back and read about President Dewey (I'm sorry it was Truman who won that election).Jerry Mc Kennahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395712495722374971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-50351941338632418812010-01-13T17:14:42.149+03:002010-01-13T17:14:42.149+03:00Caitlin--it may be realistically or artificially d...Caitlin--it may be realistically or artificially difficult. They may not have easy access to a large group of adolescents eg a high school that agrees to have their students tested; late IRB (bioethics approval) for the study in the US, grant DEADline, etc.<br />I haven't had a chance to see if the 2 cohorts were matched for other aspects which could skew as well, but I will do. For sure, this is less than ideal, but it is a start, and it may well be that a larger or more diverse sample size would have given different results for the American teens esp on the altruism aspect.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-10694438795145774362010-01-13T10:37:20.891+03:002010-01-13T10:37:20.891+03:00@Melli That's a good point - I didn't noti...@Melli That's a good point - I didn't notice that myself.<br /><br />@Chiara That's true, but I don't think finding a good size sample of "Western youth" (however you define that) would be terribly difficult.Caitlin @ Roaming Taleshttp://www.roamingtales.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-36967872542117202472010-01-13T05:53:12.427+03:002010-01-13T05:53:12.427+03:00While the results are interesting, the disparity b...While the results are interesting, the disparity between the sample sizes, 1500 for Arab, 300 for Western, calls into question the validity of the findings. Any reputable polling or statistical agency should know this. When you artificially weight data, you open the door to all sorts of issues. <br /><br />You're right. The more responsible thing to do would have been to have equal polling samples.Mr. Nighttimehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09546329409708860876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-56907297568726078042010-01-13T05:51:42.061+03:002010-01-13T05:51:42.061+03:00Thanks for that Susie. I found it very interesting...Thanks for that Susie. I found it very interesting. I am curious how they can 'weigh' things differently. <br /><br />I can also see that the numbers of Western teens wanting to change the world could be smaller perhaps because less of them are as connected on a daily basis with basic backwarness in need of change as the Arab youth are? I'd be interested in knowing the changes they wanted to make.The Queenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04071652918414242294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-73567193636047812192010-01-13T05:45:54.635+03:002010-01-13T05:45:54.635+03:00Fascinating survey. Although I do wonder what effe...Fascinating survey. Although I do wonder what effects it did have with having fewer Western youths even if they did comprise 50% of the sample.Eastern Reflectionshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11628898942072054269noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-22514070811007098092010-01-13T03:03:14.640+03:002010-01-13T03:03:14.640+03:00It commonly happens in such research that they are...It commonly happens in such research that they are unable to find suffient numbers in one group, and look for other plausible statistical solutions. It isn't ideal but it isn't uncommon, and certainly occurs as an after the fact phenomenon rather than planned for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-88618031107255150952010-01-13T01:23:45.881+03:002010-01-13T01:23:45.881+03:00To Melli - I'm not sure why they only intervie...To Melli - I'm not sure why they only interviewed 300 Westerners for this survey either, compared to so many from the Middle Eastern countries. But on one page of the report it did say "The data has been weighted so that the West<br />comprises 50% of the sample and the Middle East comprises 50%." I think it would have been better for them to have an equal number of survey participants from both sides.Susie of Arabiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13315336613944665651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-4865635648847046522010-01-13T00:55:46.206+03:002010-01-13T00:55:46.206+03:00What I find MOST interesting about this survey is ...What I find MOST interesting about this survey is that SO many youth were questioned from the Arab world, and so very few from the entire Western world! I'm not sure if that makes a difference to the outcome or not -- but I would think it might... on some things.<br /><br />I'm not surprised about the East respecting religious leaders more than the West -- I know that in American's in general pay a LOT more attention to athletes and entertainers than to religion! In that, our society is very backward in our priorities!Mellihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266127127286739779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-57392168562389363362010-01-12T19:42:54.446+03:002010-01-12T19:42:54.446+03:00Interesting. Like Chiara--I was not shocked. :) I ...Interesting. Like Chiara--I was not shocked. :) I do find it interesting that more Western youth would want to travel to NA compared to their Arab counterparts.<br /><br />anthrogeek10Anthrogeek10https://www.blogger.com/profile/11406037720184185596noreply@blogger.com