tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post9101226570999453990..comments2024-03-23T02:00:27.106+03:00Comments on SUSIE of ARABIA: Under CoverSusie of Arabiahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13315336613944665651noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-25991292243720470602010-01-15T05:30:33.450+03:002010-01-15T05:30:33.450+03:00Susie, I really am fascinated by your blog. Making...Susie, I really am fascinated by your blog. Making my way through. <br /><br />Maha's behavior sounds like the sentiment someone described to me of the way men in some Muslim countries behave. In this case it was Morocco and my friend was advised not to walk around alone. As a young Western woman, she would be harassed. However, any Muslim woman walking alone is never bothered because she is Muslim and therefore is shown respect. <br /><br />Maha's rationale may have been that as long as her back was to the only Muslim man in the restaurant (they were in the US, not Arabia) there was no danger in her mind. <br /><br />Quite frankly, I don't know how any woman can live with the hypocrisy and restrictions of this type of Islam. Especially one who lived for over 50 years in the freest society on earth. The US has its problems, granted, but there is no justifiable excuse for the subjugation of women anywhere. Even Orthodox Jewish women are free to work, drive and own property. Some even refuse to cover their heads. <br /><br />The fundamentalists have ruined Islam and created a PR nightmare for hundreds of millions of rationale Muslims who practice their religion peacefully and without scapegoating half of their population. The prophet is spinning in his grave.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17225307920411162752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-12371237464308669242009-09-15T21:10:11.675+03:002009-09-15T21:10:11.675+03:00Anonymous--I think it's important to note that...Anonymous--I think it's important to note that the niqab is not required in Saudi, though there may be social or familial pressure on some.<br /><br />Layla--that video was either staged, or voyeuristic. I have seen women with a niqab eating in public places in Canada and they have excellent manners and know what to choose to eat, and how to eat it if they will be keeping the niqab on.Chiaranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-82585362969572259902009-09-15T13:59:05.017+03:002009-09-15T13:59:05.017+03:00I watched a video o Saudi women eating spagheti in...I watched a video o Saudi women eating spagheti in a restaurant, I though it was disgusting and unfair to other people around them.<br /><br />A bit of advise to my Saudi sisters should they wish to visit South Africa. You can eat spagheti with your face open here, no one is going to arrest you.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01774543214090370108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-63795650491707214112009-05-18T08:04:00.000+03:002009-05-18T08:04:00.000+03:00Women wear niqab for different reasons.
Of those...Women wear niqab for different reasons. <br /><br />Of those who wear it for religious reasons, some believe it to be required, in which case they should not lift it in front of any non-mahram men (that's males who have reached puberty, who aren't their husband, sons, uncles, nephews, father, etc.); it doesn't matter where that man is from. <br /><br />(I wear niqab, and I wouldn't lift it in front of a BIL or waiter in a restaurant. I appreciate the partitions, so I can eat in a restaurant every once in a while, and I don't know why that should bother anyone else. If we have a male waiter, he lets us know before barging in, and I cover my face. I am perfectly able to eat, drive, work and study. I don't need anyone's pity.)<br /><br />Other women wear it for religious reasons, because they consider it a good thing that is recommended, but they don't believe that the ruling on it is that it is required, so in some circumstances, like traveling to a Western country, they might think that it will cause more trouble and attention, so they take it off.<br /><br />Then there are women - like Bedu or older women - wear it for cultural reasons. They might lift it in front of strangers to eat, or lift it while in a shop looking at fabrics (where the shopkeeper is not from their community, but might still be Arab, for example; it's not only Indians), or whatever. <br /><br />In Saudi, of course, most women have to wear it, so you have a combination, and that's why you see behavior that may be hard to understand. Some of them - those who don't actually believe that it's required - may take it off when they travel to the West, or just out of their area, or even in a restaurant where people can see them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-62791174192333994762009-04-24T02:11:00.000+03:002009-04-24T02:11:00.000+03:00Thje gossip thing is interesting. I worked with a ...Thje gossip thing is interesting. I worked with a woman, Nasreem at a school. She always wore hijab. She lives in my suburb, where there are many Muslims, some who cover, others who don't (of course). We went one weekend on a staff development weekend in the Blue Mountains outside the metropolitan area. After we got out of our city area, she pulled the hijab off, shook her hair free, and said "Thank God i can take that off". <br /><br />I was curious and asked why - wa sit because we were goign to a very Anglo area, and she said "no...I just hate wearing the bloody thing, but the GOSSIP which would follow me around in my community if i didn't would make it worse." Turned out it wa snothign to do with her beliefs, her husband's beliefs, but just that life would be such a hassle with the community opprobrium. <br /><br />So, yeah, gossip as a social determinant....it's similar in my husband's Byzantine Italian family. ...the lengths ....the lies...they go to to avoid gossip. They usually get caught out in the lie in the end - LOL!Sallyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06459567597804197579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-921207050305293862009-04-21T11:39:00.000+03:002009-04-21T11:39:00.000+03:00I think it's super strange.I don't know how she mi...I think it's super strange.I don't know how she might precieve things, or how she goes about deciding. maybe it is her upbringing, like you mentioned. Personally, i have never seen any of my uncles' wives cover their faces in the presence of their BILs, and the ones that cover their faces from distant relatives tend not to reveal them to strangers. That said, I have known many Saudiat whom go by their own rules and instincts. The ones that really blow my mind though, are the ones who are in full cover in the kingdom and turn into Pam Anderson on vacations (no disrespect any of the two).mimi ameernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-50615435583804145682009-04-19T09:25:00.000+03:002009-04-19T09:25:00.000+03:00I am a Saudi in my 40's .Thank God ,I managed at l...I am a Saudi in my 40's .Thank God ,I managed at last to let my wife to ease a bit about this face covering business .The root of the problem ( at least according my case ) is wife feeling insecure with relatives as they might spoil her reputation by gossip that she got exposed in public .This is ridiculous but sadly it is happening..I just hope it goes away one day from the rest of the society .I have feeling it will.A Free Spirithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11092199467173222942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-41075274627483303992009-04-07T05:46:00.000+03:002009-04-07T05:46:00.000+03:00Hi Susie,I wish I had the time to read all the com...Hi Susie,<BR/>I wish I had the time to read all the comments. I skimmed some of them. <BR/><BR/>To me, a veil that covers the face of a woman makes her less of a person than a man. It goes along with it being OK for a man to treat a woman any way he wants, and if she does anything that can be construed inappropriate for a woman, she can be beat or worse. If I'm stereotyping, or off in what I'm saying, please forgive and if you have time, educate me. Wearing something on our head by choice is another matter.Corner Gardener Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10631500918579405664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-18618731522003891472009-04-06T23:17:00.000+03:002009-04-06T23:17:00.000+03:00Hi Shadjar - I agree - this behavior seems racist....Hi Shadjar - I agree - this behavior seems racist. I tried wearing the veil once here just for kicks and found it very stifling and hot.<BR/><BR/>Hi Jerry - Well, if they wound up with chocolate ice cream or spaghetti sauce all around their mouths, I guess one advantage would be that nobody else would be able to tell!!!<BR/><BR/>Hi Anon - Well, I've never met her and it's not likely that I ever will. I don't know if Amber has that kind of relationship with her SIL to be able to broach the subject with her.<BR/><BR/>Hi DesertMonsoon - Your comments were really interesting. I don't know that I've ever noticed if niqab women are more likely to be rude or pushy, but now I'll definitely be on the lookout for that!!! Interesting observations!Susie of Arabiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13315336613944665651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-30447448605314216412009-04-06T10:40:00.000+03:002009-04-06T10:40:00.000+03:00Well I agree with Queen that the niqab can be psyc...Well I agree with Queen that the niqab can be psychologically unhealthy (not always though) as it can remove one's individuality and sense of personal accountabiity. I have noticed that some of the rudest people here, when it comes to butting in lines for example, are women wearing face veils and niqabs. They know you wont be able to recognize them two seconds later so they don't feel shame for their rudeness - that is what I think the explanation for their behavior is anyway. If the being rude was just cultural, then everyone would do it with the same frequency - but local men are much more polite and so are women with uncovered faces. But so many times when I was waiting in line, for example with my son in his baby carriage waiting for an elevator, I would have women with niqabs shove in front of me as soon as the elevator arrived with their 20 kids and maids and leave me waiting outside for the next elevator, even though I was the one who had pushed to button for the elevator and had been waiting for it for 5 minutes and they had just arrived. They were so rude and so anxious to get in first, that they would even start shoving into the elevator before people already on he elevator got a chance to get off on that floor. A sense of shame is a good thing to have - it keeps us in line. Feeling invisible can lead people to be less considerate. <BR/><BR/>However, I don't think this is necessarily the case for all women who veil their faces, and I am not sure that it would be so with reverts who have made conscious choice to cover their faces for certain religious reasons that they are serious about. Usually people who are trying to be better people in the eyes of God will also try to be polite and considerate.<BR/><BR/>It smacks of racism to me too when women hide their faces from their country men but freely uncover them in front of laborers etc. A man is a man, and if you are hiding your face to keep men from being attracted to you then it should apply to all men, even if you think some men are beneath you. A lot of Indian workers in these Gulf Countries don't earn enough to bring their families here so those men are literally woman starved and are more likely to get excited by the sight of a woman than any other group of men here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-29799585209805137562009-04-06T03:25:00.000+03:002009-04-06T03:25:00.000+03:00ask her straight up, in a respectful and curious w...ask her straight up, in a respectful and curious way. you're knowledgeable about Islamic rulings, so you know that your question is valid and thus you can hopefully be confident in asking it [if you choose to do so obviously].Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-26428126304297456242009-04-05T00:05:00.000+03:002009-04-05T00:05:00.000+03:00I re-read this today and wonder who sanitary it is...I re-read this today and wonder who sanitary it is to eat with a veil on? I have a hard enough time keeping by shirt clean when I eat.Jerry Mnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-31306792496306375412009-04-04T16:30:00.000+03:002009-04-04T16:30:00.000+03:00SusieI have seen this in Yemen where my husband an...Susie<BR/>I have seen this in Yemen where my husband and family hail from; for some reason being recognized is a no-no yet everyone of my in-laws, male and female, has seen my face- so it must be a Saudi thing in particular...But it also smacks of racism- where other than Saudi are considered less than men...<BR/><BR/>In Yemen women are always tugging at their niqab, those who ear it0 and I think its an attention caller- I wear one when there and its not so hot that you got to pull on it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-38136487471610212052009-04-03T15:17:00.000+03:002009-04-03T15:17:00.000+03:00Hi CountryGirl - Yes, I agree with you - being alo...Hi CountryGirl - Yes, I agree with you - being alone in the car with an unrelated driver is overlooked here because he is considered not a real man.<BR/><BR/>Hi Anonymous - I also feel it's hypocritical and I don't understand it either.<BR/><BR/>Hi CoolRed - For those who haven't been to the Middle East, many restaurants have screens available to totally block booths or tables from view from other diners. And it does at times look as though a fortress has been built. But the waiters, who are lesser men, go in and out without issue. <BR/><BR/>Hi Yoli - Thanks so much. If I ever find out, I'll let you know!<BR/><BR/>Hi Sonia - That is so wierd that your SIL hides from one brother but doesn't from the other! The inconsistencies make it very difficult to try to understand this culture. <BR/><BR/>Hi Anon, Janey & Sally - Thank you for your comments. <BR/><BR/>Hi Louise - You're not alone - I do not understand it either.<BR/><BR/>Hi Sami - Thanks for trying to explain. I thought that one of the teachings in Islam is that gossip is bad, forbidden. So your theory goes against that - and the culture shouldn't contradict the religion, should it? It's all so very confusing. Thanks for your comment.Susie of Arabiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13315336613944665651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-26095907018780315872009-03-31T07:28:00.000+03:002009-03-31T07:28:00.000+03:00its a social thing. if the girl were seen by saudi...its a social thing. if the girl were seen by saudis, they will know her family name ( face, brothers, car plates#, etc), then everyone would talk about them, since there arent any other interesting topics to talk about. Its not only for girls, men too!. if a guy were seen smooking a cigarette, they would know his family and would "disgrace" his family "name" cos of that. its a complex society :)Samihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13892036930431189147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-19762458575689155122009-03-30T05:10:00.000+03:002009-03-30T05:10:00.000+03:00I would be the last person to ask. The whole lifes...I would be the last person to ask. The whole lifestyle doesn't make sense to me. It's so foreign to all I know. It's not that I don't respect it, but I don't understand it. I am grateful that I don't have to or feel the need to hide my identity from anyone (except on my blog). It is interesting, nonetheless.Louisehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00984115229811752666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-80133604002623248762009-03-29T15:59:00.000+03:002009-03-29T15:59:00.000+03:00Sonia said: Men MUST lower their gaze when other w...Sonia said: Men MUST lower their gaze when other women are around, but 90% won't.<BR/><BR/>That's because it's got nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with patriarchal power.Sallyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06459567597804197579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-67691454147501824442009-03-29T05:39:00.000+03:002009-03-29T05:39:00.000+03:00Very odd. But perhaps she finds her male in-laws m...Very odd. But perhaps she finds her male in-laws more of a 'threat'? Or perhaps she feels more than she should for him ;)<BR/><BR/>No idea, the culture in which you are living is totally foreign to me and bewildering to say the least..Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10790330871453448360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-50608586361131357822009-03-28T05:51:00.000+03:002009-03-28T05:51:00.000+03:00hey mayb someone shud ask maha??!?! lolhey mayb someone shud ask maha??!?! lolAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-5149700865872231882009-03-27T10:51:00.001+03:002009-03-27T10:51:00.001+03:00This comment has been removed by the author.Pancakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02571796012516879910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-3589426812989563862009-03-27T10:51:00.000+03:002009-03-27T10:51:00.000+03:00Hi Susie,What a great post! Truly perplexing issue...Hi Susie,<BR/><BR/><BR/>What a great post! Truly perplexing issue, isn't it? I have a sister-in-law (dh's brother's wife) who won't come out of her room when dh and I visit, but when dh's other younger brother comes over, she has no problem with coming out. Ugh! Anyways, I will agree with AD daily photo and Aalia, its a combination of many Arab men not following Islam properly and gazing into every woman's face, and culture prevailing over a religion. Men MUST lower their gaze when other women are around, but 90% won't. People get different meanings and extract different interpretation of the same Quran, and will behave the according to which part of the Quran suits them. Extremely frustrating but thats just a human nature.Pancakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02571796012516879910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-51021956500053212862009-03-27T05:36:00.000+03:002009-03-27T05:36:00.000+03:00Oh my sweet Susie, this blog that you have created...Oh my sweet Susie, this blog that you have created here is pure gold. A place of utter fascination. I would love to know if one day you do find out, why she does this.Yolihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06068063513978782703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-5605837318766316862009-03-26T21:55:00.000+03:002009-03-26T21:55:00.000+03:00"husbands try to build a fortress"...oh god that m..."husbands try to build a fortress"...oh god that makes me laugh...you go to a resturaunt around here sometimes and its like walking through a maze from all the fortress building going on. ha ha haCoolred38https://www.blogger.com/profile/07502256532402473484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-7767669285723658372009-03-26T21:15:00.001+03:002009-03-26T21:15:00.001+03:00It is always bewildering to me when I see women sh...It is always bewildering to me when I see women shoveling food from underneath their veils. It’s also just as weird when their husbands try to build a fortress around them made of partitions. I believe it is a public restaurant, and if you want total privacy you should dine at home. <BR/><BR/>About the SIL, I think its total hypocrisy; the same I experienced in the States with Saudi female students where they act all footloose and free, but the moment they find out that you are a Saudi they shift into a different mode.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-88728709232015851572009-03-26T21:15:00.000+03:002009-03-26T21:15:00.000+03:00It is always bewildering to me when I see women sh...It is always bewildering to me when I see women shoveling food from underneath their veils. It’s also just as weird when their husbands try to build a fortress around them made of partitions. I believe it is a public restaurant, and if you want total privacy you should dine at home. <BR/><BR/>About the SIL, I think its total hypocrisy; the same I experienced in the States with Saudi female students where they act all footloose and free, but the moment they find out that you are a Saudi they shift into a different mode.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com