tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post3019712113278500232..comments2024-03-29T14:07:48.770+03:00Comments on SUSIE of ARABIA: From Hugging to a Handshake to HelloSusie of Arabiahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13315336613944665651noreply@blogger.comBlogger131125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-38034608615473659412009-09-12T20:20:46.110+03:002009-09-12T20:20:46.110+03:00http://mimizwords.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/%d9%84%...http://mimizwords.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/%d9%84%d9%88-%d9%83%d9%86%d8%aa-%d8%b1%d8%ac%d9%84%d8%a7%d9%8b-if-i-were-a-man/#comments<br /><br />Thought this might interest you..Bajnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-5495616132268316332009-08-14T13:00:58.254+03:002009-08-14T13:00:58.254+03:00I always tell my kids that the devil is the bigges...I always tell my kids that the devil is the biggest prude and wants to make us feel dirty about the things God designed in us, so there are bad laws, an attitudes that makes people feel dirty about sex etc, and that gives people like Hugh Hefner have a monopoly on sex, and then people learn to look at it all like it's dirty and shameful, an not a gift from God to be respected, treasured and guarded with reverence, but not shame.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-58954818859775427962009-08-08T10:07:12.052+03:002009-08-08T10:07:12.052+03:00Dear Susie,
I am living in Aramco Camp Dhahran, S...Dear Susie,<br /><br />I am living in Aramco Camp Dhahran, Saudi Arabia.<br /><br />When I was younger I used to kiss and hug women (all relative or not, Mhram or not (Mhram means no way to marry)).<br /><br />put when the symptoms of puberty started to be noticed. I felt in myself I have to be a little bit away and keep distant with all women except the non marriageable relative.<br /><br />I felt sorry at the beginning for short period put I became happy now. You know what made me happier that all women I used to greet by kissing still greeting respecting and loving me without touch and they appreciate my puberty and why I am keeping distance.<br /><br />So please Susie accept Sultan as he is, I am sure he still loves you as he used to don’t let him feel that his puberty is making you unhappy and lower you love to him.<br /><br /><br />By the way, this is the first time I see your blog and I really like it. <br /><br />MadhiSaudi Arabiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02577409082512801585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-1728572845879272122009-07-01T08:24:29.675+03:002009-07-01T08:24:29.675+03:00I haven't seen any fake muslim converts here I...I haven't seen any fake muslim converts here Ismail. Or anyone claiming to be a Muslim attacking Islam- Or hypocrites- <br /><br />I see people disagreeing on how to understand certain things and I see people disagreeing on what is cultural and what is religious.<br /><br />Though I may be uncomfortable with how some people understand Islam- I would never judge others in that way- that is for ALLAH to do.Jewelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-31049689073566829682009-07-01T04:47:26.516+03:002009-07-01T04:47:26.516+03:00if you want to see fake muslim converts, come to t...if you want to see fake muslim converts, come to this blog. all of them gather here to attack ISLAM, but in appearance they claim to be muslims !!<br /><br />no wonder Munaafiqs (hypocrites) in the the bottom of hell.ismailhttp://kavaasaa.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-74988803974029131842009-06-29T01:09:15.311+03:002009-06-29T01:09:15.311+03:00Anon...so how about get some of those child brides...Anon...so how about get some of those child brides on here to comment about how wonderful it is to be sold off to old men by their own fathers. Happens in Saudi with consent from authorities since no one stops it unless someone pitches a fit. <br /><br />Ask them if life in Saudi as a women is wonderful. <br /><br />I agree with Jewels...your understanding and interpretation of Islam is NOT the only one out there..to believe it to be so is the one with distortions to over come.Coolred38https://www.blogger.com/profile/07502256532402473484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-69825552076673996542009-06-28T17:12:31.304+03:002009-06-28T17:12:31.304+03:00That's just it Jewels. I believe thay they rea...That's just it Jewels. I believe thay they really, honestly just do not have a clue. That is how deep their arrogance goes.The Queenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04071652918414242294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-69159556057011144652009-06-26T22:00:02.501+03:002009-06-26T22:00:02.501+03:00another anon:
"You can believe anything you w...another anon:<br />"You can believe anything you want. What you shouldn't do is come on public forums - especially where there are many non-Muslims who are coming to learn about a culture they don't understand - and mislead people by insisting that your beliefs are Islam if they'e not."<br /><br />Unbelievable arogance. But YOU can go on public forums? Because you are the accurate describer of Islamic beliefs? Do you not get that people who disagree with you think that YOU are the misled- misleading others?Jewelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-67147336132950480972009-06-26T15:08:21.262+03:002009-06-26T15:08:21.262+03:00You can believe anything you want. What you should...You can believe anything you want. What you shouldn't do is come on public forums - especially where there are many non-Muslims who are coming to learn about a culture they don't understand - and mislead people by insisting that your beliefs are Islam if they'e not.<br /><br />Readers here get the impression that women in Saudi are miserable creatures with no life, forced to cover themselves, always afraid that they're going to be victims of honor killings... I understand that Susie sees things as somewhat of an outsider, but Muslims should try to explain that it's not the way it is - not pass on more distortions.<br /><br />Another AnonymousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-18315104242142815692009-06-25T22:15:46.655+03:002009-06-25T22:15:46.655+03:00Coolred
I understand what you are saying. It neve...Coolred<br />I understand what you are saying. It never used to bother me if people understand things differently than I do-only if they tried to compell me to be like them. I like to assume people are doing there best- the same that I do and Allah will judge where judging is necessary.<br /><br />But so many seem to feel if you are different you are somehow deficient in character or knowledge. The incredible intolerance is really sad- but to me really says more about their own insecurities.<br /><br />"Al Rahman-Al Raheem". Powerful, meaningful, holy words.Jewelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-791355115125232782009-06-25T19:03:49.467+03:002009-06-25T19:03:49.467+03:00*continued
If I or anyone chooses to believe diff...*continued<br /><br />If I or anyone chooses to believe differently from the concensus...then why do you (general you) feel you have the right to label us outside the collective understanding...therefore weak or following our nafs etc? What gives you the right to KNOW you are right and to KNOW I am wrong? <br /><br />My Islam tells me that God is a Merficul and Benovolent God that wouldnt create women then order them to cover their heads simply because He also created men with hightened sexual awareness of womens hair and bodies...and created them unable to control simple body functions...but funny enough He created women with that very same ability (sexual awareness)but we are expected to be more in control, we are expected not only to control ourselves...but to make it easier on the men by removing ourselves from their vision so they dont have to struggle in the first place with their sexual urges...sounds like a freakin unfair god to me...but that aint MY God...might be yours...and thats fine if you accept it...I dont accept that my status as a women is in anyway inferior to a mans...I dont accept that men are highly sexualized creatures that need constant pampering and coddling so that we dont lead them astray with our voices, our bodies, our smells, our very existence. Controlling a mans sexual urges in NOT a womans job. <br /><br />Covering my hair so that men are not viewing my "beauty" is just a an excuse for men to misbehave when they do see hair....or even if they dont...it sexualizes women for a creature that supposedly has no control over his sexual urges and apparently is not expected to. <br /><br />Way to go God...you really pulled a doozy on us women. Made us soooo freakin sexy...men have no choice but to resort to animilistic behavoir...despite having the VERY SAME CODES OF CONDUCT that women are subject too...but men are not required to cover their hair etc from us...why is that? Are women not sexual beings as well...do we not find men sexually appealing...doesnt a strand of curly hair that tapers at the neck of a man turn us on and make us want to reach out and invade the space of that man and take what we want...simply because his hair is sexy and we have NO control over our sexual urges? <br /><br />Why is it believed that women by and large CAN control themselves sexually...but men by and large cannot? Sounds like a huge distortion of Gods message...a message that has been shoved down the throats of Muslim women for centuries...and by and large...they swallow it without a murmur of protest...and argue with women (and men) that choose not too and decide to look for an answer or definition or understanding that falls more in line with a Loving and Benevolent God who considers both genders equal and accountable.<br /><br />I reiterate...controlling a mans sexual urges is NOT a womans job..its his...hands down no debate about it...its his. That being the case...the hijab should be absolutely irrelevant. If a woman wants to wear it for whatever reasons...then all is good...but to declare that God requires it of us simply because we are women...well hell...that just sounds so absolutely WRONG...and I dont even understand how women can believe in that...but at least I concede that fact that YOU can...why cant you accept the fact that I dont have to as well?Coolred38https://www.blogger.com/profile/07502256532402473484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-76978380147347067202009-06-25T19:03:19.424+03:002009-06-25T19:03:19.424+03:00When its mentioned that "context" must b...When its mentioned that "context" must be considered...if the Quran is for all people for all time...then context shouldnt be required because we no longer live in 6th century Arabia...and shouldnt have to leave our understanding of the world...of each other...and how to relate etc in the hands of patriarchal men who saw no problems treating women, non Arabs, and non muslims as less than...and that obviously shows in their "scholarship". <br /><br />Islam is supposedly for all people for all time...and time doesnt stand still...its moving and changing and new ideas come along while old ideas fall away...the Quran is supposed to be a miracle...miracles should need no explanation...they just are. To explain a miracle changes it from a miracle to a normal everyday occurance. Nothing amazing there. <br /><br />Scholars work hard for their degrees etc...just like everyone else who strives towards academic excellence...but what they understand...the conclusions they come to... are not written in stone...in the end they are ONLY opinions. Opinions we can take or leave...because God grants us the right to choose, to understand, to learn for ourselves and come to our own conclusions based on what we have learned...and be held accountable for those understandings and the actions we took. <br /><br />There is no clergy in Islam....there is no Pope...there is a body of scholarship that we have at our disposal...to aid us...but in the end...we stand alone on Judgement Day.<br /><br />*continuedCoolred38https://www.blogger.com/profile/07502256532402473484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-68232991411772348462009-06-25T07:25:35.285+03:002009-06-25T07:25:35.285+03:00Susie, how can you stand it there? Why don't ...Susie, how can you stand it there? Why don't you come home? Or can't you? Are you free to travel whenever you would like? Sorry for all the questions, I just found your blog.Lynn@noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-47090523175200574842009-06-25T01:14:32.612+03:002009-06-25T01:14:32.612+03:00Chiara ..
That's true, i was talking about th...Chiara ..<br /><br />That's true, i was talking about those who make fatwa.<br /><br />"Scholar" is a very wide term, but i was referring to a specific type of scholars whom are at the point of interest here, they're what we call "Mujtahideen" (from: Ijtihad)<br /><br />I'm not saying that someone with a PhD can't be a scholar, i said that there are requirements for fatwa, i mentioned some of them. It doesn't matter where do you get them.<br /><br />But again, it's not an academic degree, because a scholar needs to be a Muslim, to have Taqwa, to follow the evidence, ..., and such things can't be gained in college.<br /><br />Mu - RiyadhAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-48846254835455586322009-06-24T22:28:19.770+03:002009-06-24T22:28:19.770+03:00Sorry about the typos above--finger hit publish be...Sorry about the typos above--finger hit publish before brain could proofread.<br /><br />Jewels--thanks again. Agreeing, disagreeing constructively, and agreeing to disagree make for good intellectual/spiritual stimuli!Chiaranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-5243763218567830082009-06-24T22:23:46.622+03:002009-06-24T22:23:46.622+03:00Mu-Riyadh--if you are defining Islamic scholars as...Mu-Riyadh--if you are defining Islamic scholars as those recognized as having the qualifications to make a fatwa, that is one very specific definition.<br /><br />PhD Academic scholars in Islamic studies, do meet language requiremments to be able to comprehend Quranic Arabic, and the other forms of Arabic and narrative analysis skills necessary to comprehend the Hadith and later scholars. <br /><br />Naskh is the correct term thank you, for what I meant in part by "Islam is not fossilized", as well as not being fossilized in that as you say the hadith are not closed to examination.<br /><br />Those scholars I have called "dually trained" have the necessary instruction from respected Imams rather than academics to have the tools you suggest for fatwah making, or refrain from fatway making.Chiaranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-67384169693084969652009-06-24T20:33:24.018+03:002009-06-24T20:33:24.018+03:00You're welcome Chiara. Agree or disagree, I h...You're welcome Chiara. Agree or disagree, I hope you find them worthwhile.Jewelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-28232475357198553712009-06-24T20:27:56.971+03:002009-06-24T20:27:56.971+03:00I am really tired of traditional Muslims making th...I am really tired of traditional Muslims making the remarks like,<br /><br />"Ignoring the huge body of scholarship over the centuries, to pick something that Fatima Mernissi or Karen Armstrong or Amina Wadud said, because it validates what one wants to do in the first place, is not following Islam."<br /> <br />How do you know that is what we're doing- just because we disagree? and who are you to judge?<br /><br />Well, I could just as easily say the same. You all just want to cling to the established parameters. Some of you do whatever you can to shore up your control over women. Some of you feel more comfortable with a little checklist of things you're doing right because you are so fundamentally insecure you can't NOT have that list. Some of you even like to compare and try to make yourselves superior to others. You have a longer list of "do's" and "don’t's" and it makes you feel superior. <br /><br />This is what you 'want' to believe. Because you are so scared that your faith can't survive the realization that so much of what is being put forward is garbage. <br /><br />You have enshrined old rulings, enshrined schools of thought, enshrined tafseer etc. and made them sacred and can't let them go because you have made THEM Islam. To lose them is to lose your faith. <br /><br />Allah is so much better than that….Islam is so much better than that. Why make it so small?<br /><br />Mu- in Riyadh:<br />lets just suffice it to say I understand ijmaa differently than you do. No need to assume I'm ignorant because I'm different.Jewelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-62763612526027996672009-06-24T20:22:47.533+03:002009-06-24T20:22:47.533+03:00So, what's the definition of a Muslim scholar?...So, what's the definition of a Muslim scholar?<br /><br />Whats are the qualifications?<br /><br />Is it an academic degree?<br /><br />Is anyone who studied a course or took a diploma or even had his PhD in an Islamic specialty is qualified to be an Islamic scholar who gives fatwa?<br /><br />To know the answer you need to know what sources Muslims take their religion from, and how.<br /><br />And so, to make a fatwa, you need to have the tools for it.<br /><br />I want to give some examples here<br /><br />"Another Anonymous" mentioned the fluency in Arabic language, and because many people don't understand the situation of Arabic language in the modern ages, they will not understand the true meaning here.<br /><br />A scholar needs to comprehend Arabic to have the right understanding of Islamic sources. And i repeat, COMPREHEND, not only read or speak.<br /><br />Arabic is a beautiful language, you might not face a problem in speaking it, but to know the wide meanings of its words or its grammar is a very different thing. And currently, the vast majority of Arabs don't reach that level. Actually, most of them don't even speak the standard Arabic.<br /><br />The Quran is the main source in Islam. But, to read Quran is one thing, and to extracts the rulings from it is a different thing. The verses are associated with different circumstances and surroundings which a scholar must be fully aware of when interpreting them.<br /><br />Another example of what a scholar must have is the knowledge of Hadith (the sayings of the prophet). Muslims believe that Hadith _unlike Quran_ is unprotected against additions and alterations. So, every hadith needs to be studied (regarding the chain of the narrators and the actual wording), evaluated, and then categorized, and this is a very amazing and complicated process. Every category has it's own way and level of effect in the evidence.<br /><br />Another knowledge is the knowledge of "Naskh", which "involves the replacement (tabdīl) of an earlier verse/tradition (and thus its embodied ruling) with a chronologically successive one".<br /><br />And the list goes on.<br /><br />You can see that simple study and research isn't enough to reach the level of a scholar in Islam without the necessary tools.<br /><br />And even after that, his opinions will be challenged and his evidence will be tested, and it remain a work of men, where an error is possible.<br /><br />Mu - RiyadhAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-84795146061402354032009-06-24T16:58:38.015+03:002009-06-24T16:58:38.015+03:00Jewels X3 and M.J.--excellent points!
Another Ano...Jewels X3 and M.J.--excellent points!<br /><br />Another Anonymous--<br />"In general, an Islamic scholar is someone who is well-versed in the Islamic sciences, not only something like sociology or American law." <br />These are not mutually exclusive, and Al Fadl and other academics have demonstrated by their dual training.<br /><br />"And given that the source texts are in classical Arabic, the person has to be fluent in Arabic. Reading the tiny fraction of works that has been translated into English (and sometimes translated with a bias, at that) doesn't make it."<br /><br />All PhD level academics are required to have native or near native fluency in their source materials ie in this case Arabic. Both Al Fadl and Mernissi are native speakers/readers/writers.<br /><br />"Ignoring the huge body of scholarship over the centuries,... is not following Islam."<br />As is ignoring contemporary scholarship, since Islam is not fossilized.<br /><br />"But studying deen is...from the scholars and classical books in those fields."<br />As academic scholars do.<br /><br />For the record, I am not a Karen Armstrong fan, and don't consider her a scholar, but rather a knowledgeable, high level journalist who serves a useful transitional role. <br /><br />Jewels--very considerate to offer more names in this spirit. Leila Ahmed is already on my to be read more list.<br /><br />Mu-Riyadh--ah, on that part we are in agreement, then. Come back feessa (soon)! LOL :DChiaranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-56304325792019951442009-06-24T16:52:10.317+03:002009-06-24T16:52:10.317+03:00Hi Chiara, nice to see you again too
Another Anon...Hi Chiara, nice to see you again too<br /><br />Another Anonymous already answered, it's the agreement on hijab in general what i refer to here<br /><br />..<br /><br />Jewels<br /><br />You really have to read about "Ijmaa'" (consensus) in Islam, it's different than what you imagined.<br /><br />..<br /><br />I'm in a hurry now, I'll come back again for more (inshallah).<br /><br />Mu - RiyadhAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-68888117699337762952009-06-24T16:34:11.161+03:002009-06-24T16:34:11.161+03:00"People here argued with the opinions of AlTu..."People here argued with the opinions of AlTurabi and Abu AlFadl. The fact that no one found any known scholar in the Islamic world and history who said a similar opinion in such basic teaching, is an evidence in itself!."- Another anon<br /><br />I didn't write that; Mu-Riyadh did. But he or she is right.<br /><br />In general, an Islamic scholar is someone who is well-versed in the Islamic sciences, not only something like sociology or American law. <br /><br />It should go without saying that the person has to be Muslim. People like John Esposito and Karen Armstrong might have interesting things to say about Muslims and Islam, but you can't take your deen from them.<br /><br />And given that the source texts are in classical Arabic, the person has to be fluent in Arabic. Reading the tiny fraction of works that has been translated into English (and sometimes translated with a bias, at that) doesn't make it.<br /><br />Ignoring the huge body of scholarship over the centuries, to pick something that Fatima Mernissi or Karen Armstrong or Amina Wadud said, because it validates what one wants to do in the first place, is not following Islam.<br /><br />And I have read books by most of these people. I think that many of us Western converts, unfortunately, pick up those kind of books instead of actually studying the Book of Allah, for example. But studying deen is learning Arabic, memorizing Quran and studying its tafseer, and studying tajweed, aqeedah, tafseer, hadith, tajweed, fiqh, Islamic history, etc. - from the scholars and classical books in those fields.<br /><br />Then one can read those books, and have a basis with which to evaluate them.<br /><br />I love you sisters for the sake of Allah, and I urge you to seek knowledge in the right places. On the Judgment Day, I wouldn't want to try to justify something by saying that a book by Karen Armstrong told me to do it that way.<br /><br />Another AnonymousAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-43320755797978322542009-06-24T13:06:04.125+03:002009-06-24T13:06:04.125+03:00im sorry it's hard for you :( despite being an...im sorry it's hard for you :( despite being an american convert, i've always loved this aspect of islam and when i noticed my nephew hitting puberty started wearing hijab infront of him even though he wasnt yet 13. i guess since you're used to showing the affection you feel through certain ways it's really hard for you to have to let go of that! im sure he knows how much you love him anyway!lalahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11616980367853792052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-72804013251020648712009-06-24T08:07:46.380+03:002009-06-24T08:07:46.380+03:00Leila Ahmed, Javid Ahmed Ghamidi, John Esposito, R...Leila Ahmed, Javid Ahmed Ghamidi, John Esposito, Reza Aslan.<br /><br />I'm sure you'll find something wrong with them- that's fine. But it gives people a chance to look for themselves if they choose, and not to just swallow everything they're told. <br /><br />Believe it or not I've got other things I have to get to doing-so enjoy. Also remember though these are_Minority opinions "consensus" is NOT the same as "majority".<br /><br />Back to topic. Obviously you should never hug someone who is uncomfortable with it for any reason. And most boys/men in this culture are that way. I think it is sad. I hug my nephew-many extended family women hug my teen-age son, and I am glad of it. I do think things here revolve way to much around sex and control- but apparently they are a society obsessed.<br /><br />Really people male and female should hug those they are comfortable with. With all the homosexual behavior going on here-<br />I don't feel my son shoud be obliged to hug any man,teacher, older boy- that makes him feel uncomfortable for any reason. And if he is comfortable with a hug from his female cousin that's fine with me.Jewelsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3569425364802315563.post-45872303740253102582009-06-24T07:26:58.616+03:002009-06-24T07:26:58.616+03:00"People here argued with the opinions of AlTu..."People here argued with the opinions of AlTurabi and Abu AlFadl. The fact that no one found any known scholar in the Islamic world and history who said a similar opinion in such basic teaching, is an evidence in itself!."- Another anon<br /><br />A couple others were mentioned you reject-so, this is evidence? Of what? of the blind following of Medieval interpretations? The treating of ancient scholars as though their words are nearly prophetic? To the scholars credit- they never made any such claims that their rulings and opinion were somehow eternal or unchanging. Their modern followers, however love to control people, and have turned themselves into clergy,Jewelsnoreply@blogger.com