Thursday, November 12, 2009

Where is the HONOR?

Noor Almaleki

Noor Almaleki was a beautiful 20-year-old woman who always had a thousand watt smile on her face. She had high hopes for her future, wanted to get a college education and have a career. But that was not to be. Noor was of Iraqi descent but was raised in Arizona since she was a young child. The older she got, the more Noor's father, Faleh Almaleki, got upset at how Westernized she had become. He forced her to quit her job at a fast food restaurant and tried controlling every aspect of her life. She rebelled. Noor just wanted to be what in America would be considered normal. Her father secretly arranged for her to marry a total stranger, an Iraqi man she did not know, and tricked her into going to Iraq. Once there, her dad said she couldn't return to the states unless she married the man. So she did, and she returned to Arizona without her husband. And then Noor fell in love with another man. The young lovers moved in together. Her father was furious that she had brought such dishonor to the family by her immoral actions.

So furious that he killed her by running her over with his Jeep.

Once he had committed this incomprehensible crime against his own daughter, Faleh Almaleki attempted to flee from the US on a flight to London. Upon arrival in England, he was refused entry and was immediately deported back to the United States, where he was promptly arrested. Faleh Almaleki has allegedly admitted to killing his daughter, reasoning that she had brought shame on the family.

Faleh Almaleki intentionally ran over his daughter Noor with a Jeep and killed her"Different cultures, different values. One thing to one culture does not make sense to another culture," said Peter-Ali Almaleki, explaining why his father mowed down his sister Noor in a government parking lot in Peoria, Arizona, killing her.

Peter-Ali's statement is definitely true. I certainly don't understand how murdering one's own daughter is acceptable in some societies when it is believed that she has brought shame on the family with what they perceive to be immoral behavior. How can family honor be more important than a family member's life? What honor is there in killing your own daughter?

Are we not expected to follow the laws of the land that we are in when we travel or live in other countries? Why then does this father knowingly disobey US law and then flee like a coward? Most honor killings are carried out by a male family member against a close female relative. However honor killings directed at men are becoming more common when it is believed that the male family member is gay. It is estimated that an average of 5000 honor killings occur worldwide every year.

Human Rights Watch defines "honor killings" as follows:

Honor crimes are acts of violence, usually murder, committed by male family members against female family members, who are held to have brought dishonor upon the family. A woman can be targeted by individuals within her family for a variety of reasons, including: refusing to enter into an arranged marriage, being the victim of a sexual assault, seeking a divorce — even from an abusive husband — or allegedly committing adultery. The mere perception that a woman has behaved in a way that "dishonors" her family is sufficient to trigger an attack on her life.

Murdered sisters Sarah and Amina SaidOn New Years Day of 2008 in Texas, an Egyptian man shot and killed both of his teenage daughters, Sarah and Amina Said, when he discovered that they had boyfriends. Last year a young Saudi woman was killed by her father for chatting on Facebook with a man. Recently in Pakistan several young girls were buried alive when they refused to enter into arranged marriages and expressed their desires to marry men of their choice. Sixteen year old Aqsa Parvez was strangled and beaten to death by her own father in Canada over her refusal to wear the hijab, the scarf many Muslim women wear to cover their hair in public. And in a bizarre twist on honor killings, an Iraqi woman was arrested for orchestrating the rapes of some 80 women, shaming them so that she could recruit them into becoming martyrs, suicide bombers whose actions would free them and their families from the shame of their rapes that SHE had arranged in the first place. Other women have been killed for wanting a divorce, for flirting, or just for wearing makeup. Many times her murderer is never charged with any crime, and oftentimes, if they are, the maximum sentence will be six measly months in jail.

But what really surprises the hell out of me is the reaction - and many times the LACK of reaction - from the communities involved when honor killings occur. When mourners at Sarah and Amina's funeral were told by their imam that "all living things are destined to die," as if to just shrug off their deaths as a natural process, and were told by another religious cleric that parents need to work to keep their families strong - they are missing the opportunity to decry and discourage this type of misogynistic behavior and, in reality, are condoning it. I know that Islam does not condone honor killings, but there is no denying that there is a recurring pattern here that honor killings are mainly committed by Muslims against Muslim women.

Yaser Said is wanted for murdering his daughtersThe killer of Sarah and Amina Said - their father Yaser Said - is still on the run. It is believed that he absconded to Egypt right after killing his daughters. Until men around the world stop trying to control every aspect of their women family members' lives, treating them like children who are unable to make decisions for themselves, telling them how they should dress and behave, or who they should marry, or where they can or cannot go - until men allow women to make their own decisions about their own lives, women like Noor, and Sarah, and Amina will continue to be murdered by the very men who are supposed to love them and protect them. How many more innocent young women must die before this archaic and barbaric practise stops? I concede that immorality is rampant in the West, but killing a child for not wanting to wear a scarf on her head is way worse than any immoral behavior I can think of.

When honor killings occur, does the rest of the community REALLY look upon it as having restored the family's honor? Do any of them view it as wrong? Or do people actually believe that these murders are justified? I don't understand how cultures can claim that their religions are peaceful and say that killing another human being is wrong, and then all these senseless crazy murders like this keep happening. The men of these families have appointed themselves judge and executioner in these cases, but doesn't their religion tell them NOT to judge others? There is something very wrong with the man who would rather KILL his own child than to have her live her life exposing her hair, or having a boyfriend, or marrying for love. I just don't understand this mentality...

UPDATE: 23NOV2009 - Faleh Hassan Almaleki, Noor's father, has pleaded Not Guilty in court to charges of Aggravated Assault. He's been on suicide watch in jail which caused his hearing to be delayed twice. It is expected that he will be charged with more serious offenses since Noor died.


  1. Salam, I really dont know how anyone could kill there own child!!! beats me!!!

  2. To me killing is never an honor - for whatever reason there is.

  3. That has to be one of the most horrific sights for passers by and other onlookers to see. As you know, Susie, Peoria is a suburb city adjoining Phoenix where drive-by shootings are not unknown in the drug and gang neighborhoods. But to watch a young woman simply mowed down in a middle class area is something no one could erase from their memory. I haven't heard anything about this from my Phoenix friends so I'd love to see links to any reporting on the matter if anyone has them.

  4. I will never understand honor in Arab culture - is it just culure or is it religion. I will note that you rarely hear honor killings in Christian Arab families in the West.

    If Arab males are so willing to kill their daughters does that mean they are implying that all Western women are immoral? If so why are they living in this den of iniquity?

  5. Very good post! I have two daughters and I could not imagine harming, much less killing them, for ANY reason. In fact, even though they've grown and married, I still have a strong fatherly instinct and would do anything to protect them. It is very hard to understand what is acceptable in other cultures, especially when the customs go back for centuries. Cultures, religions and laws often conflict. Will that ever change?

  6. This is a sad story! It a culture thing and as a Western, one would never understand this. Maybe it goes back to the Adam and Eve thing.

  7. Again, Susie, you've posted a great topic and allow us to opine.

    These senseless murders can only be stopped when muslims take a stand en masse.

    I believe women hold the power and can bring about an obviously much needed reformation.

    Mothers are so revered in islamic society and have the opprotunity to teach their children the true tenets of their faith thus changing an entire generation.

  8. It's an outrage! Hipocrites hiding behind religion.

  9. This comment has been removed by the author.

  10. Very good posting with some really good variety of examples. It is hard for me to understand as well and so I try to find those people within the communities who DO try to bring awareness that this is a bad thing - even when their legal authorities don't do anything to help. Many countries now have laws against this sort of this, but it is just not enforced.
    I have not had big discussions about this with my family or friends, but based off similar 'cultural' actions I would imagine that the killings wouldn't help, although I'm not sure if it would hurt the family's reputation either...
    Hopefully, more people just talk about this and the practice changes for the better as time goes on.

  11. It was so hard to believe when the news reported that this beautiful girl’s father had purposely hit her with his car. First of all why did they move here?? If he didn’t want the influence of the Western culture, he should have kept his family in Iraq. All these women that were “honorably killed” are now Angels in Heaven.

  12. What a shame and then calling *it* honour killing??? sf

  13. Brilliant post, my heart raced just reading it thinking of my own daughter. Its ignorance, vanity and pride which drives these despicable men.

  14. Its a culture, not religion. Sadly many fail to separate culture from religion. Think of it this way, if people didn't strongly believe in culture they wouldn't be in agony of facing the society that might look down upon them for their daughters "disgraceful" actions. People are so engulfed in culture, so worried about what people might say of them that they are not afraid to turn against their own children, that they are not afraid to commit such horrendous crime. Yes Islam doesn't allow women to date, or to have premarital sex and if people (this is for both men and women) then they should be *in worst case* stoned to death, but Islam also says to FORGIVE. But sadly, people forget that both MEN and WOMEN are equally responsible for their actions, and punishing women, while letting men act like animals is inexcusable. Again I would like to stress that such crime and such horrific actions are predominantly culture based, not based on Islam. Sadly even Imaams are culture biased, as when I asked for women to be allowed to pray in the masjid as it was allowed and encouraged during the Prophet Muhammad saw 's time, imaam said "But in our culture women don't pray in mosques" That shows how engulfed Muslims are with culture, with people's opinion, rather than Islam.

  15. No honour in killing, and really community is guilty here not just the family.

    I don't believe that men (uncles, fathers, brothers) want to kill their female relatives...I don't think they do, but the darn community pushes this.

  16. I think this shows how huge the distance has become between these countries and the western countries. The gulf will continue to widen until they choose to drop these middle ages ideals. The rest of the world is NOT going to stop advancing for them, they will either have to catch up or be left behind. I have a friend who was in Dubai and waiters would not even take her order for dinner. One of her male business partners had to order for her???? REALLY??? I do believe we are becoming a global economy, but this ever widening gulf is counter productive. I recommend the book "Infidel" really thought provoking.

  17. Stories like this make me so mad! How can someone do that to their own child?! Killing someone is wrong, plain and simple, its wrong. For thousands of years religion has been used as an excuse for horrible acts. Why does the world continue to let evil people hide behind their supposed religion when they do evil deeds. This goes for all religions and cultures, not just Islam.

  18. here's the thing I don't understand in the first place...why if the West is so "rampant with Immorality" as you put it Susie and these fathers know it why do they move here and put their families in that position? why would they want to live in a culture where they need to worry every minute about what the female members of their family are doing? They are emotionally ill equipped to handle the lifestyle. Maybe even more pointedly is it fair to raise a kid in a society they culturally in many ways become a part of and forbid them to take part in that society...I am not talking about engaging in immoral behavior, though I think that definition would be different from person to person, but everyday society. The kid had a job for goodness sake! How many parents would love their kids to get a parttime job to teach some responsibility? would they even be allowed to have friends who were not Muslim? It must be horrible for the girls to live in a place where the most innocent stuff is forbidden to them.

    If it is a matter of money and making a better life I think it is far better that the husband come to the states and let the family stay in the home country where there is, no doubt, cousins and grandparents and lots of familial support. My father in law did just that. Although it was for school. He attended Cambridge University in England and chose to leave his wife and kids behind where they had TONS of support. With visits home, It worked out beautifully for all involved.

    Finally, what could these men possibly be thinking other than rage as they look into their daughter's eyes as they snuff out their beautiful lives!!!

  19. kill your child.

    i dont understand how people can put what others think about their own family members.
    everyone has something private, just because its not public doenst mean the world is clean.
    but family is precious!

  20. It seems the first girl mentioned is from a Christian Arab family because her brother's name is Peter... unless that's not his real name...
    That would go to show that it is cultural more than anything...

    Such a shame... what a beautiful girl!

    As a westerner I often feel that in certain other cultures parents seem to demand and expect to be allowed to have an inappropriate level of control over the lives of grown children, telling them how to dress, who to marry / not to marry and even what career to choose.

    I admire the closeness of families in many of these cultures, but there has to be some way to maintain a healthy balance between a strong supportive family and being able to make your own decisions.

    In my opinion, if someone does something I consider morally wrong, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else, that's between him/her and God, and it's not my or anyone else's place to judge or punish him/her. All you can do is pray for a loved one if you feel they have strayed off the right path and try to gently guide them back to the right one.

  21. All I can say is, I bet you thank God every day that you have a son rather than a daughter!

  22. I agree with a number of comments on this, if the western lifestyle, culture, is anathema to someone they should not choose to live in a western nation. There are other choices in the world.

    Also, I keep remembering the Woman who was murdered in a German courtroom seemingly for wearing hijab and how the whole islamic world was outraged that it could happen. I wonder where is that same outrage in the whole islamic world over the honor killing of a woman who didn't wear hajib.

    And if murdering someone for wearing hajib is islamaphobia what is accepting the murder of someone who doesn't wear hajib? Acceptence of islam? Silence means consent.

    Why is there outrage at nations that forbid the hajib or burka but no outrage at nations that force their own dress codes on women?

    That is not to say there are not people speaking out about all of this, there are. It's just that their voices are quieter than those who support it. Until they find their voice loudly, it won't change.

    And there is a saying absolute power corrupts absolutely. That is what some men have over women, in some nations. Absolute power of women and unfortunately there are women who ( perhaps because of centuries being raised such as this) come to accept that power. Change will not take place until women demand change.

    Change in America didn't come easily, it was women who fought to get rights they have now and those rights were won not only because of law but because decent men stood by their side and fought with them. Change must come from within as I doubt people will allow the opinions of other nations to change them.

    And as much as honor killings is decried as not being Islamic religion nor Islamic culture unfortunately, some laws of some Islamic nations do take the side of the killer and not the victim. The laws for these types of murder can be very lenient punishment for the murderer. Again, it's up to the people to demand a change in that. Unfortunately, that's not a change that comes easily and not without many paying the price. It's very hard to change the minds of people when they have lived that way ( and it's accepted) for so long.

  23. @ Anon 2:32

    I have a quick correction.

    Pre-marital sex is not punishable by death in Islam. The only capital offence is extramarital adultery (as in someone who is married and cheats on their partner). To reach a conviction, the accuser must have 4 witnesses to the actual act of intercourse-not even just lying together naked or kissing, or hearsay, but intercourse-and these witnesses must have a reputation of honesty and truthfulness. These requirements are nearly impossible to meet, thus rendering the punishment largely ineffectual.

    I'm by no means advocating capital punishment, as I'm against it in all circumstances (ESPECIALLY something which strictly belongs in the private domain like extramarital adultery.) However please be more careful with the terms and conditions as there are already enough preconceptions about muslims and the koran.

  24. Because I was contemplating on this post and wondering why people of Middle Eastern culture seem to be more motivated to perform "honor killing" I went on a little search. What is it about the culture that would foster this? I found something that I thought was very interesting and thought I might share it. Hope no one minds...

    Cultures and their "control"(for lack of a better word) of their citizens, are broadly based on two methods of controlling.

    The first is those cultures based on guilt.

    You have done something wrong, you know it and it may have hurt another person. You feel badly about it and try to atone or correct for your wrongs.

    Guilt is a feeling that arises when we violate the absolute standards of morality within us, when we violate our conscience. A person may suffer from guilt although no one else knows of his or her misdeed; this feeling of guilt is relieved by confessing the misdeed and making restitution. True guilt cultures rely on an internalized conviction of sin as the enforcer of good behavior, not, as shame cultures do, on external sanctions. Guilt cultures emphasize punishment and forgiveness as ways of restoring the moral order; shame cultures stress self- denial and humility as ways of restoring the social order.

    Shame is a reaction to other people's criticism, an acute personal chagrin at our failure to live up to our obligations and the expectations others have of us. In true shame oriented cultures, every person has a place and a duty in the society. One maintains self- respect, not by choosing what is good rather than what is evil, but by choosing what is expected of one.
    Personal desires are sunk in the collective expectation. Those who fail will often turn their aggression against themselves instead of using violence against others.(obviously in this case the fathers used their daughters rather than themselves) By punishing themselves they maintain their self- respect before others, for shame cannot be relieved, as guilt can be, by confession and atonement. Shame is removed and honor restored only when a person does what the society expects of him or her in the situation, including committing suicide if necessary.

    It seems that the West in general is a guilt based system and the East is a shame based system which I think would explain why this is more popular in the Eastern(Middle East, Japan, etc) countries than the West.

    It seems to me(and I am by no means a psychologist) that if one could change the societal "controls" from Shame to Guilt then the reason for honor killings(to save the families reputation) would no longer exist.

  25. You are certainly on the spot, Susie, on asking "where is the honor"?

    These people are disgusting and have no fear from God what so ever! It is really appalling! A girl gets beaten and shot over talking on the internet with a male? What do you think the father does at night online when his wife is sleeping?? Give me a break!

    Killing because she doesn't wear Hijab or is too westernized? What the heck???

    It's like: Can I kill you because your arm pits stink and thus you are causing me to vomit?

    I am sorry but this is NOTHING Islamic what so ever!!!

  26. This is a shocking and all-too-common story. I just don't understand it. If western culture is so immoral, why bring your young, impressionable daughter into the 'den of sin' that is the U.S. in the first place? As you said in your post, this poor girl was just doing what is considered very normal in the U.S. Not only is the father to blame for the killing of his own daughter, he is the sole reason she was 'corrupted' in the first place. I cannot imagine this happening in my own family, but I know it would only cause intense pain and heartbreak, not bring about any kind of honor. Once again, thanks for the informative and thought-provoking post.

  27. My daughter's father bruised her leg (as a form of discipline) and I went straight to the police. They took it the matter very seriously. I cannot even begin to imagine a father doing so much more than just bruising. It hurts my heart to even imagine ANY pain coming to my child. So sad to hear about this young girl.

  28. its so outrageous that this still happens today! i hope that something serious can be done about this!

    there is no HONOUR in killing full stop!

    oh and susie, are you and your family ever going back to the states?

    im an avid reader from australia! keep up the good blogging ;)

  29. No, I just won't accept that any country's customs can make the taking of someone else's life acceptable. This is crazy! It's evil!

  30. It's a form of control mainly to maintain both fear and male dominance. Male dominated societies are among the most destructive. Obvious is an underlying fear of women, their power and their innate intelligence. Why else would women be kept isolated, uneducated and dominated?

    Having said that, it can be very difficult for 1st and 2nd generations of immigrants to 'free' countries to adapt. People come for a better lifestyle and jobs but don't understand how hard it can be for their children to live under the old rule. Generally by the third generation (but hopefully the second) people do okay.

  31. I can't help but think that this father, and others, are mentally ill. Not as an excuse, just a statement of fact. Sociopathic. Narcissistic. Whatever name you call it, it's not just culture nor religion.

    Narcissists can become dangerous people when they feel threatened. I know from personal experience.

    I am feeling for the mother. I hope she has friends in Peoria to support her (will her son Peter be helpful? I hope so). She's probably a powerless codependent who hasn't had much say over family life.

    Here's a follow-up story:

    I'm familiar with the Maricopa Co. jail system. Mr. Almaleki will get "jail justice" from the other inmates. No wonder he's under suicide watch.

    May he be prosecuted to the fullest extent of U.S. law.

  32. It's not religion, culture, Islam, East, or anything else - it's just inhuman. Every inhuman and gruesome act can't be justified on the basis of religion, culture or tradition. We have to keep on modifying our practices with the changing times. Even if this has been a practice in many parts of the world, it can't be justified now simply because it has been the tradition, religion or culture.

  33. When I lived in Sweden in the mid-1980's this honor kiliing occurred when a Turkish woman became involved with a Dane. Her Turkish husband, whom she was trying to divorce, murdered her. He fled to Turkey. His father came back with him "to explain" his reasons so he would be able to return & work in Denmark! It was just a little misunderstanding. Once explained, everything would be business as usual. This angry & controlling behavior is abuse. When one human being feels that he owns another as a possession is narcissism as the Anonymous above states. But it is not a mental illness. Narcissists do not act disordered & crazy with all people, only some people whom they feel entitled to control. Seems that narcissism has been legally institutionalized in some places in the world. Some males are entitled to control their women. To use & abuse at will and to eliminate them when they are no longer useful or compliant. We see this all the time in the States. The man kills the children, the wife & then turns the gun on himself (sometimes). The woman & children are the "self-object"--like a child's blanket. Without the self-object, alone, he is nothing & empty. If the "self-object" -- woman -- does not make him look & feel as good as he wishes, there is hell to pay. As any woman who has ever been caught in the web of a narcissist knows: It's All About Him! And his IMAGE is everything. There is nothing else but image. Looking good. A disordered & fragmented personality with a true diagnosis of narcissist personality disorder wears 'the mask of sanity.' It is pointless to reason with such people. They do not even understand their inconsistencies. They will never change. They are playing with a different deck of cards. And there is an element of misogyny here with these so-called honor killings. Some men hate women because women control the source of the most pleasurable physical experience for a male. It's all about controlling the source. That is, controlling women.

  34. This is about the Fort Hood Massacre, I put a link to your blog.

  35. As many have stated this is diffinetly not part of religion, if anything it is completly against it. I have no idea how such a man can meet his maker.

    Arabs in pre-islamic times used to burry their newborn daughters because of their misguided though of saving honour. The quran has a verse which condemed this act.

    Sadly many muslims today concern themselves with memorizing the quran without contemplating what it says and repeat the mistakes that Allah has warned about.

    Susie, I'm kinda surprised that you've been in saudi this long and still have trouble seperating culture and religion.

  36. The thing is that men from any faith can be abusive - and abusive to the point they kill a loved (supposedly)one. I remember shortly after the Bridges TV woman was murdered by her husband (who was abusive to her throughout their marriage) a man here in the states killed his daughters for some stupid reason like dating - he wasn't Muslim and the story came and went while the Bridges one went on and one - all about honor of course.

    In Wyoming they have a program called Silent Witness which displays cut outs of women killed in intimate violence by partners who usually believe they wronged them (paranoid and thinking they are with another man for example). None were Muslim. So yeah there are some men who claim honor in the name of Islam- but Bucko the redneck who who uses his shotgun on his girlfriend for disrespecting him is no different - but no one would use the term "honor". These men - particularly in the West are just more abusive sick men like non-Muslim sick men. Many of them too do not think of it as an
    'honor killing' - it is the media that puts that spin on it

  37. hi suzie.
    It is really sad to read about these horrible crimes .But is it just culture or is it religion?It is hard for anyone to believe that Islam is innocent of these crimes that most of which occur in the Islamic world and that if you have a chance to talk to muslim clerics especially those of beduin origins you will find the roots of this way of thinking even if they tried to hide it or beautify it.As you know the Islamic world have been suffering-for ages- plenty of problems worse of which are ignorance in all countries and poverty in most of them which of course have reflections on how its people think. However, when I want to know about a religion do I go to someone who has many itellectual, financial and social problems or even to any other human being who could be right or wrong or do I look for the basics of this religion which in our case are stated clearly in the holy book (Qura'an).Again is it just culture or is it religion ?If you are sincere and non-prejudiced about this question, I recommend you to read our holy book, support it with some historical knowledge of reasons for some of the verses and try not to get exegetics from anyone.Then and only then I'm sure you'll find the answer for your question.

  38. A few psychiatric and anthropologic collages going on here.

    The honour in an honour killing is where those doing them claim it is: in saving the honour of the men and the rest of the family from the shame of the behaviour of a transgressive individual. It is more a part of shame rather than guilt cultures, and of tribal or endogenous (inward looking and homogenous) rather that exogenous cultures (externally oriented and heterogeneous). There is no psychiatric diagnosis implied when the behaviour is consisted with cultural norms, as when these honour killings occur in the places where they are endemic, ie the village, tribal cultures of South Asia mainly (regardless of religion) and in some parts of the Middle East eg in Jordan.

    When these honour killings occur in Western countries it is most often within the community of South Asian or Middle Eastern origin, and among its least educated, most traditional members.

    Many immigrants have a fantasy that they can prevent their children from being Westernized in any way. Some are too rigid, or too psychiatrically ill with depression (often caused by the stresses of immigration) to find alternative solutions when then discover behaviour they find unacceptable. Others reach a more suitable compromise--but then they, who are far more common, don't make the headlines.

  39. Susie thank you for bring this light. I am disgusted when crimes against women occur and more so when it is at the hands of their own families.

  40. Hi Susie

    Please can you drop me an email as I would like to discuss something with you - Rebecca, Publisher/ Editor-in-Chief, Arabian Magazines

  41. The new version of the Immigration handbook in Canada was rolled out on November 12, 2009. It specifically addresses this issue:

    "In Canada, men and women are equal under the law. Canada’s openness and generosity do not extend to barbaric cultural practices that tolerate spousal abuse, “honour killings,” female genital mutilation, or other gender-based violence. Those guilty of these crimes are severely punished under Canada’s criminal laws."

  42. Anonymous--thank you for pointing out the language of Canada's new immigration handbook. I was sincerely hoping it was a misquote, but unfortunately not. The word barbaric is unnecessarily hostile, and could easily have been left out while conveying the same idea. Also, those who believe that religion rather than culture dictates their practice (and there are many who do so unwittingly) are unlikely to be deterred. Also, by definition the men in the family are willing to face jail time to preserve their family's honour. It is still a worthwhile clarification, and hopefully won't have the family's "youth" doing the defending in the name of honour and lower repercussions, under the Youth Offender Act.

  43. Murderers do not have honour, and neither do those who endorse such practices.

  44. this has nothing to do with a muslim girl myself and i know this is not acceptable at all in my religion...dont blame the religion..blame the man's action...just because one man does this it does not mean islam is to blame..everyone is accountable for their own actions!! violance and killing is part of every country every reigion of the world...just because u see a muslim guy does does not mean islam is behind it...

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